@ DrDyna
Group blocking ALL the bass together centered under the screen would be optimum, IF it works. Possibly with delay to match up with the mid/tops.
You could try the Gedlee approach though.
BUT, whatever works best, works
You might have to move
Keep us posted
They would fit laid down under the screen...and that's actually one I haven't tried yet.
That's today's project!
Fair enough, I was under the impression a couple of kilowatts would provide enough headroom.
Are you driving it down at 2ohm per side, too?
Have you tried the age-old trick of putting the subs at your listening position and then walking around the room to find the best spots?
I'm back to hitting excursion limitations having discovered some music that has serious infrasonic content. Might be fun to try
The Fifth Element Track 2 Mondoshawan - YouTube
PS - skip to ~1 min and wait for the sweep down. I swear it hits single-digits.
Fair enough, I was under the impression a couple of kilowatts would provide enough headroom.
Are you driving it down at 2ohm per side, too?
Have you tried the age-old trick of putting the subs at your listening position and then walking around the room to find the best spots?
I'm back to hitting excursion limitations having discovered some music that has serious infrasonic content. Might be fun to try
The Fifth Element Track 2 Mondoshawan - YouTube
PS - skip to ~1 min and wait for the sweep down. I swear it hits single-digits.
The Epic 12s are 2 coil x 2 ohms, so I've got them wired at 4 ohms, the EP2000 is somewhere around about 500 real watts per channel at 4 ohms. I've been flirting with the idea of another EP2000 so I can run each channel to each 2 ohm coil, even though the EP2000 turns into a bit of a hair dryer at 2 ohms.
I'll have to give that track a listen later
I've arranged the subs at the back of the room, but I've noticed an interesting thing. I also put together a riser for one of the couches as a test, so I could put one behind the other in the center of the room. With nothing along the walls, I seem to have picked up some extra sensitivity. Cool!
So, these are a keeper for now.
So, then I was considering what to do with the empty prototype cabinet that I punched a bunch of holes through.
Hm, wouldn't that size of cabinet make a really beast center channel?
Why, yes it would. And the crossover was a snap because these subs are relatively flat, so I haven't bothered with the MiniDSP. Makes a dandy crossover for a 3.5 way center.
So, these are a keeper for now.
So, then I was considering what to do with the empty prototype cabinet that I punched a bunch of holes through.
Hm, wouldn't that size of cabinet make a really beast center channel?
Why, yes it would. And the crossover was a snap because these subs are relatively flat, so I haven't bothered with the MiniDSP. Makes a dandy crossover for a 3.5 way center.
Attachments
I have a habit of reusing cabinets if I can find something interesting for them...I've still got half a dozen empty cabinets kicking around here.
One question, I came across some 1/4 inch glass pieces that are pretty much the perfect size that if mounted in the side of the cabinets of the od-ml-tl would do a pretty fancy job of showing off the driver. Do you guys think a 1/4 thick glass panel that's about 5" x 12" would shatter if I were to route a lip and silicone it in there next to the driver?
@ DrDyna
Glad to hear things have improved Can we see a pic of the All bass together ?
You might like to use this soft
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/237016-design-acoustic-related-software-iapple.html
If you do let us know how it goes.
I wouldn't use glass, or plastic, espessially in Bass cabs ! I doubt if it'll break though.
Glad to hear things have improved
Can we see a pic of the All bass together ?You might like to use this soft
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/237016-design-acoustic-related-software-iapple.html
If you do let us know how it goes.
I wouldn't use glass, or plastic, espessially in Bass cabs ! I doubt if it'll break though.
@ DrDyna
Glad to hear things have improved
You might like to use this soft
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/237016-design-acoustic-related-software-iapple.html
If you do let us know how it goes.
I wouldn't use glass, or plastic, espessially in Bass cabs ! I doubt if it'll break though.
Sure, I'll snag a pic in a little bit, I've gotta clean up down there some. There's an iPad here, but I've gotta ask permission before I put any apps on it...I usually refuse to use it because I hate it, I much prefer my Nexus tablet. I'll give the software a try and see what I can get from it.
As far as the glass, I'm pretty sure it's tempered. I have a third piece that I can whack with a mallet and see what happens. The resonance of it should be way higher than the subs play anyway. Worst that happens is I end up having to shop-vac the glass out and replace it with plastic.
Ha, yeah, its different from the old one for sure, and it cured a big problem I had with the subs at the back of the room, deep voices rumbled way too much from the back of the room which made it a little bizarre, but I was able to set the center crossover in the htr to 40 hz so that problem is gone.
Now the plan is another pair at some point and a bigger amplifier. I'm not sure if I'll get another behringer or not, I was thinking about one of the bigger crowns that have DSP, but I'm not sure yet. Either way, its gonna be a few months before I do any of that.
Edit: yeah, I always keep my boxes for packing too, the drivers are probably heavy enough to break the box if its mishandled...plus if anyone else handles it, its easier to carry the original boxes around without dropping them than that 120lb subwoofer.
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@ DrDyna
Thanks for the pics
It never ends does it
No problem, and thanks! The plan is to have all 4 of the rear surrounds in the wall, but I'm still having leaking issues with that back wall, so I can't finish it until I fix it.
Yeah, it really does never end, lol.
I am finally settled in back in the US. Re-reading this thread to decide how to go. I am thinking of building the tb46 iteration as no one has and DrDyna built the first iteration.
Will try to make sawdust in next couple of weeks. I am slow due to family and work travel.
Right now I have the Lab12's in the sealed enclosures running with my sealed Maelstrom X. Sounds great but low end is missing. Could just do an L/T circuit with my miniDSP as I don't listen that loud in my townhome (usually -10 dB from THX reference). But I think I may be happier with the TL design to get solid 20 Hz performance without stressing the drivers, I am assuming will have lower THD.
Will try to make sawdust in next couple of weeks. I am slow due to family and work travel.
Right now I have the Lab12's in the sealed enclosures running with my sealed Maelstrom X. Sounds great but low end is missing. Could just do an L/T circuit with my miniDSP as I don't listen that loud in my townhome (usually -10 dB from THX reference). But I think I may be happier with the TL design to get solid 20 Hz performance without stressing the drivers, I am assuming will have lower THD.
I like the OD_ML_TL's
The first design (OD_ML_TL) does not have the visceral, in your face thump that some subs have but they are very "musical" and integrate easily with my sound system.
I have a pair of 12", 73 liter woofer boxes that have an in room rising response down to 35 Hz and when I have the OD_ML_TL's on, but not cranked all the way up, it really seems that all the low bass is coming from the 73 liter woofer boxes.
It really fools me even though the OD_ML_TL's are 5 ft. away from my chair vs. 13 ft. for the woofer boxes.
However, when I turn off the sub amp, the 73 liter woofers suddenly seem a little lame.
I presently have the subs right next to each other for the mutual coupling gain.
I removed most of the stuffing between S2 and S3 and both the SQ and the SPL got better.
.
If you decide to build the TQWT's it will be interesting to see what the difference is.
Either way, best of luck with your build.
Also, I thank you for recommending the Crown xti-1002 amp. I really like it.
Dave
The first design (OD_ML_TL) does not have the visceral, in your face thump that some subs have but they are very "musical" and integrate easily with my sound system.
I have a pair of 12", 73 liter woofer boxes that have an in room rising response down to 35 Hz and when I have the OD_ML_TL's on, but not cranked all the way up, it really seems that all the low bass is coming from the 73 liter woofer boxes.
It really fools me even though the OD_ML_TL's are 5 ft. away from my chair vs. 13 ft. for the woofer boxes.
However, when I turn off the sub amp, the 73 liter woofers suddenly seem a little lame.
I presently have the subs right next to each other for the mutual coupling gain.
I removed most of the stuffing between S2 and S3 and both the SQ and the SPL got better.
.
If you decide to build the TQWT's it will be interesting to see what the difference is.
Either way, best of luck with your build.
Also, I thank you for recommending the Crown xti-1002 amp. I really like it.
Dave
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Shady,
The comparison of your 2 sub systems isn't really accurate as they are separated by 8' and so activating different nodes in your listening space. To gat an accurate idea which system is hitting which notes you'll have to swap them in and out of a common location and evaluate from your listening seat.
One way to find the best position for a subs is to flip the system around and place the sub at the listening location and then crawl around to placement locations and fin the most suitable response. This may really help you place the second system for most complimentary output to your first system.
The comparison of your 2 sub systems isn't really accurate as they are separated by 8' and so activating different nodes in your listening space. To gat an accurate idea which system is hitting which notes you'll have to swap them in and out of a common location and evaluate from your listening seat.
One way to find the best position for a subs is to flip the system around and place the sub at the listening location and then crawl around to placement locations and fin the most suitable response. This may really help you place the second system for most complimentary output to your first system.
I am glad you like the Crown. I am looking for subs for music. Have the 18" sub for HT. For music I plan to only use the Lab12 design. The second looks easier to build, but the first fits my intended space better.
Will do the sub crawl for the 18" beast for maximal excursion. If the two systems don't play well together I will look to build a new sub for HT.
And so it begins....
After months of planning, changing directions, and rethinking I am moving forward building a pair of the transmission line subs. tb46 has developed a smaller form factor of his design from a few pages back and is currently finalizing putting the "electron" model into a "wood" plan. I was going to go many different ways as I kept changing my mind, but at the end of the day I wanted to do something different.
Based on latest iteration of the plan, the enclosure will measure 25.5" H x 25.5" D x 16" W. Once finalized I will post and develop the cut sheet. Dual subs will be powered by an Adcom GFA555 amp (for now).
Internal dividers will have around a 3.2 degree angle. I remember reading on one of the tapped horn build threads that when using PL adhesive you don't have to cut the panels to exact degree. Would appreciate any feedback on whether I need to cut the internal dividers at the angle or will the PL adhesive fill the gaps?
I am hoping for an in room response of 115 dB @ 1 M per sub (250 W/4 ohm input). I guess time will tell. I have REW and a calibrated Cross-spectrum Labs calibrated EMM-6 USB microphone. Once subs are built I will try to figure out room measurements.
My space is rather large (~4,800^3) but these two subs will be used as flanking subs for my 4 Pi speakers. I primarily listen to music (75%). For HT they will be paired with an 18" Maelstrom-X sub (sealed, 5.9 ft^3, Qtc: 6.5) powered by a QSC RMX1850HD amp. For eq I have a miniDSP (2x4), Behringer DSP1124P and Behringer FBQ2496.
Hope to start sawing wood in next couple of weeks, but the holidays may intervene.
Thanks for reading, hope these turn out well....
After months of planning, changing directions, and rethinking I am moving forward building a pair of the transmission line subs. tb46 has developed a smaller form factor of his design from a few pages back and is currently finalizing putting the "electron" model into a "wood" plan. I was going to go many different ways as I kept changing my mind, but at the end of the day I wanted to do something different.
Based on latest iteration of the plan, the enclosure will measure 25.5" H x 25.5" D x 16" W. Once finalized I will post and develop the cut sheet. Dual subs will be powered by an Adcom GFA555 amp (for now).
Internal dividers will have around a 3.2 degree angle. I remember reading on one of the tapped horn build threads that when using PL adhesive you don't have to cut the panels to exact degree. Would appreciate any feedback on whether I need to cut the internal dividers at the angle or will the PL adhesive fill the gaps?
I am hoping for an in room response of 115 dB @ 1 M per sub (250 W/4 ohm input). I guess time will tell. I have REW and a calibrated Cross-spectrum Labs calibrated EMM-6 USB microphone. Once subs are built I will try to figure out room measurements.
My space is rather large (~4,800^3) but these two subs will be used as flanking subs for my 4 Pi speakers. I primarily listen to music (75%). For HT they will be paired with an 18" Maelstrom-X sub (sealed, 5.9 ft^3, Qtc: 6.5) powered by a QSC RMX1850HD amp. For eq I have a miniDSP (2x4), Behringer DSP1124P and Behringer FBQ2496.
Hope to start sawing wood in next couple of weeks, but the holidays may intervene.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Will post photos as time allows.Thanks for reading, hope these turn out well....
Attachments
Except for any visible in the mouth, I've never cut any dividers at an angle for a HIFI/HT app, usually just a free hand 90 deg cut. I draw a line where the edge of the board goes, lay down a 'bed' of adhesive along it, insert divider and run a bead across the gap once clamped in place. Works just fine with Titebond or similar also, though for wide gaps I mix in some sawdust or similar to make a paste to putty knife/squeegee to fill the gap somewhat.
Angles and dado-ed joints are nice, but only a good plan for a prosound, industrial or similar app IME.
GM
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