Break in time for TC Sounds 12's?

[SpinMonster]

Originally Posted by Calvin

Hi,

I regard it as a positive sign, if parameters don´t change much compared against the values right out of the cartonage. Its a sign that the driver has already had its break-in period.
After TCs DS a 2cft casing tuned to 25-28hz should be ok, if the coild are connected in series, for 4-Ohm loading. How did You wire the coils?

Exactly, right to the point.

jauu
Calvin

I always run as high in impedance as I can so the amp has max damping factor. In my house thats a Peaver CS4080hz in stereo mode one channel driving the 4ohm load is 2400 watts. In my car its a Rockford Fosgate 4000.1BD which is 1500 watts into a 4 ohm load. Although its stable for 1 ohm loads at 4000watts, it wouldnt sound good. I usually run 4-8 on it for the best sound quality. My typical home system is two LMSr 15's per side in series for 8 ohms with each Peavey CS4080hz running bridged for 4080 watts. Yes sealed may sound different but I'm comparing other ported 10's and 12's to this ported 12" in the same environment with the same equipment.

The home subs flank my 16 foot screen but its for theater use and not really for music so its a tough comparison. I didnt buy the LMSr15's expecting quality with a heavy cone like that with the same motor as the TC 12" runs. Obviously, the 12 has to be better suited to quality with the same motor and less MMS...no?

[SpinMonster]

Originally Posted by Boscoe

If you want ture HiFi the best way to go about it is to stick it in a sealed box with some EQ and a very large amplifier uin the order of about 1000Wrms.

Or I can return to a replacement that worked in the last sub that I blew up. I went beefier to avoid the cost from 'accidents'. If one sub in a ported box can sound detailed, then ported boxes can hit what I'm looking for. If this one doesnt sound as good ported that doesnt make ported boxes Low-fi, it means this one doesnt do what I need.

For the record, I dont see how a 12db drop in low bass requiring big EQ resulting in big distortion is better SQ. I tried sealed box alignments and hear nothing I like.

Anyway, I can try changing internal volume and a higher tuning frequency. There is so much more adjustment before I give up on what is likely the best output for deep bass I've had in a 12". It would be nice to have it all.

[SpinMonster]

MMs 107 grms.

Seas L26ROY 10" Subwoofer

[fastbike1]

If you use lots of EQ on a sealed box to bring up the low end, you're missing the whole point of alignment/sizing. You select the driver and build the box size so that the natural roll off gives you the response you want.

Originally Posted by SpinMonster

Or I can return to a replacement that worked in the last sub that I blew up. I went beefier to avoid the cost from 'accidents'. If one sub in a ported box can sound detailed, then ported boxes can hit what I'm looking for. If this one doesnt sound as good ported that doesnt make ported boxes Low-fi, it means this one doesnt do what I need.

For the record, I dont see how a 12db drop in low bass requiring big EQ resulting in big distortion is better SQ. I tried sealed box alignments and hear nothing I like.

Anyway, I can try changing internal volume and a higher tuning frequency. There is so much more adjustment before I give up on what is likely the best output for deep bass I've had in a 12". It would be nice to have it all.

[Boscoe]

Originally Posted by fastbike1

If you use lots of EQ on a sealed box to bring up the low end, you're missing the whole point of alignment/sizing. You select the driver and build the box size so that the natural roll off gives you the response you want.

Most people don't want 200l boxes in their room and if I remember the 12 LMSR works well in a small sealed box.

The reason mentioned a 1000w amp do it can handle the EQ.

[speakrsrfun]

If this is indeed for automotive use then I'd say run a few sweeps in your car, measure, and find out where the peaks and nulls are. Something tells me this is an artifact of the cabin of your car and cabinet tuning and not of the driver.

Lets also get straight that not all cars sound good with a ported box. Example... my friend wanted a ported box in his van, cabin gain made this optimally loaded driver/cab combo sound like *** (literally farted) so I designed a T-line that was slightly larger than the ported but offered better detail and control. Additionally we measured the resonances of the inside of the van and found that if we tuned the cabinet to "optimal" tuning the van had huge bumps in response from 20-45 hz resulting in a boomy fart like sound (typical booming kids type single note sounds). Once we built the T-line and tuned it to 35hz rather than the 25 or so before it changed things drastically. Not all boxes are created equal in car audio without doubt, as no two cars cabins are the same you kind of have to consider more 'environment" than science at this point.

One thing I've learned about car audio applications is that Optimal tuning for that driver may not be optimal in car due to a very low tuning frequency, this due to cabin gain artifacts in general. Most "KIDS" feel lower tuning will get them better low end and bragging rights (dude it's tuned to 18Hz), when all it gets them is muddy sound without detail... or Quarter panel farts!!

My opinion is that your cabinet in car is creating the same artifact in your current cabinet within the confines of your cars system. Try, if your willing, to build a slightly higher tuned box 35-40hz, try a t-line even.

Remember even if you tune with a natural 6-12dB rolloff below port tuning the cars gain will make up for the rolloff most times.

Once again I doubt the TC sounds driver is at fault here...

[SpinMonster]

Originally Posted by speakrsrfun

If this is indeed for automotive use then I'd say run a few sweeps in your car, measure, and find out where the peaks and nulls are. Something tells me this is an artifact of the cabin of your car and cabinet tuning and not of the driver.

Lets also get straight that not all cars sound good with a ported box. Example... my friend wanted a ported box in his van, cabin gain made this optimally loaded driver/cab combo sound like *** (literally farted) so I designed a T-line that was slightly larger than the ported but offered better detail and control. Additionally we measured the resonances of the inside of the van and found that if we tuned the cabinet to "optimal" tuning the van had huge bumps in response from 20-45 hz resulting in a boomy fart like sound (typical booming kids type single note sounds). Once we built the T-line and tuned it to 35hz rather than the 25 or so before it changed things drastically. Not all boxes are created equal in car audio without doubt, as no two cars cabins are the same you kind of have to consider more 'environment" than science at this point.

One thing I've learned about car audio applications is that Optimal tuning for that driver may not be optimal in car due to a very low tuning frequency, this due to cabin gain artifacts in general. Most "KIDS" feel lower tuning will get them better low end and bragging rights (dude it's tuned to 18Hz), when all it gets them is muddy sound without detail... or Quarter panel farts!!

My opinion is that your cabinet in car is creating the same artifact in your current cabinet within the confines of your cars system. Try, if your willing, to build a slightly higher tuned box 35-40hz, try a t-line even.

Remember even if you tune with a natural 6-12dB rolloff below port tuning the cars gain will make up for the rolloff most times.

Once again I doubt the TC sounds driver is at fault here...

As stated, this ported alignment is repacing a ported alignment. If the other ported subs had the detail then its not the fact that this sub is ported that is the issue. I also stated that I brought the sub into my house yesterday all day for use indoors to assess it in a non-car environment. I guess many people only read the first post and not the follow up which is ok.

I am changing the internal volume and tuning today to see where it lands me. 1.85 cubes ported to 26.5 decreases group delay and may improve things. I will also try a sealed box regardless so I know first hand what the differences are other than a drop of 8db drop at 30hz.

I think things work both ways. People read things on the internet and go with ported or sealed based on what they read and rarely try another alignment. I tried ported and sealed on the two prior subs and ported was better for me both times. Now how many sealed fans try a ported box? I doubt many do because they believe sealed sounds better but they dont know first hand. I will post pics of the sealed box I will build for it today. Any suggestions for size or should I just go .9 cubes net as WINisd says is a .707 alignment?

[m R g S r]

Spin do you have DSP in the car?
Sealed does sound less boomy because the rolloff better compliments the cabin gain, but if you had a ported setup that sound good and only swapped boxes/subs then you're right, you should be able to get it to sound the way you want.

[revboden]

Sounds like you need to do some sweeps of the driver/box/car combo to figure out where the mud is. My guess is that it's tuned too high. That driver dosen't need the port output to go low. I'd try stuffing a towel in the port and then run a sweep. (or play some tunes)

cheers
revb.

[SpinMonster]

Originally Posted by m R g S r

Spin do you have DSP in the car?
Sealed does sound less boomy because the rolloff better compliments the cabin gain, but if you had a ported setup that sound good and only swapped boxes/subs then you're right, you should be able to get it to sound the way you want.

It has limited DSP in the head unit.

Yes, there were numerous ported boxes in this truck and all but an alpine 15 ported sounded better. Run a ported simulation on this 12" and compare the group delay to a ported 10" Scan Speak L26roy. Maybe it has to be run sealed for SQ............so........

I built a sealed box today for it. Its already glued together. Tomorrow I router the edges and put it in the truck. It has a 1.2 cube net internal volume which I will change by adding blocks in to run it between .9 cubes to 1.2 leaving no stone unturned. I expect a big drop in ultimate SPL output at 25hz (7db) and it will be faster as the group delay drops big time. It models 44HZ as its -3db point using the specs DATAbass measured for the driver....not so impressive....and -11.2 at the point my current box is -3db at (23hz). If I was willing to give up the low end SPL, then I could have just used a 106grm cone 10" to start with.

I am open to the possibility that this sub has to be used sealed for SQ so I'm trying it but that mindset could have been used for every other ported sub I've had in my truck. I didnt have to use them sealed because they didnt have one note bass in a ported application.
If you want loud deep bass, the TC is built for it and wins all the trophys. If it has to go in a sealed box to not have one note bass and loses the SPL and 7db at 25hz, I could have had that for 1/2 the money.