I'm preparing the grounds to realize two closed subs to complement the low end of my OB speakers. They go down to about 70hz, fast and tight, it is just the lowest octave which is missing.
I have serious space constraint in the room and for WAF, therefore two small sealed boxes are my only option. Sealed because i want low Qt to keep the pace with the great 15" woofers in U frame.
I played a bit in winISD and started looking at datasheets. It seems 10" are the ideal size in a 40lt box. I aim for a Qt<0.4.
Cost is also an issue somewhat, since total including plate amps (with direct servo or t-bass) cant exceed 800€ (for the pair), so basically 250€max per driver.
So far my list includes:
-Peerless xls P830452 (black nomex)
-Scanspeak 26W/4558T00
I'm open to other options. The employ is 100% music and a seamless integration is of paramount important.
Thanks in advance.
I have serious space constraint in the room and for WAF, therefore two small sealed boxes are my only option. Sealed because i want low Qt to keep the pace with the great 15" woofers in U frame.
I played a bit in winISD and started looking at datasheets. It seems 10" are the ideal size in a 40lt box. I aim for a Qt<0.4.
Cost is also an issue somewhat, since total including plate amps (with direct servo or t-bass) cant exceed 800€ (for the pair), so basically 250€max per driver.
So far my list includes:
-Peerless xls P830452 (black nomex)
-Scanspeak 26W/4558T00
I'm open to other options. The employ is 100% music and a seamless integration is of paramount important.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Telstar 😉
diy is your only option?
If you need a small active subwoofer, with a tight and musical low end, I think a serious option should be the XLS200 from BK Electronics
XLS200
10" Peerless XLS10, sealed.
Had listen to this at my buddy's, and believe me, no way you can build such a good one with that budget (about 350 euro).
Or maybe, you'll be very close to it.
diy is your only option?
If you need a small active subwoofer, with a tight and musical low end, I think a serious option should be the XLS200 from BK Electronics
XLS200
10" Peerless XLS10, sealed.
Had listen to this at my buddy's, and believe me, no way you can build such a good one with that budget (about 350 euro).
Or maybe, you'll be very close to it.
No, I definitely have considered the small BK unit. It lacks DSP in the plate amp, though, and the filter is a bit too bland in the upper range (at min settings):
Bk XLS200-DF MK2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
(note that the above is downfiring while I will use front-firing for a better integration with my speakers, and i dunno how it performs in that orientation, probably needs a slightly bigger box 40-45l is what i'm considering).
I want to check if I can build something better. Maybe I can use BK enclosure... not sure how many liters is.
The XLS10 seems one of the best performers in very small sealed enclosures, but the scanspeak 26W is a great performer in simulation, at the cost of slightly higher Q.
The hivi that I have been suggested instead has way less SPL and possibly reliability issues so I discarded it.
Bk XLS200-DF MK2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
(note that the above is downfiring while I will use front-firing for a better integration with my speakers, and i dunno how it performs in that orientation, probably needs a slightly bigger box 40-45l is what i'm considering).
I want to check if I can build something better. Maybe I can use BK enclosure... not sure how many liters is.
The XLS10 seems one of the best performers in very small sealed enclosures, but the scanspeak 26W is a great performer in simulation, at the cost of slightly higher Q.
The hivi that I have been suggested instead has way less SPL and possibly reliability issues so I discarded it.
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Look at Infinity 1260w in a 36 liter sealed box. They need about 300 watts but produce excellent results. F3/f10 32/21
Just simmed it. It looks excellent! 🙂 But Qtc is a bit high for my goals.
Power shouldnt be a problem, I'm using 300W in simulations.
I also added the Wavecor SW263WA01, suggested by a friend of mine. It's good but in a 40l box the Scanspeak bestes it and for the price I prefer european quality.
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Mainly the XLS10+passive radiator is build for 20hz movies. It seems you need a sub for the lower octaves in music or HT?
Btw. if you want a really small sub you can use a Tang Band W8-1363SBF with a Scan-Speak 26W/0-00-00 pr ...the simulation is fantastic in only 15 liter volume down to 30hz! If you want a simulation pic let me know.
Btw. if you want a really small sub you can use a Tang Band W8-1363SBF with a Scan-Speak 26W/0-00-00 pr ...the simulation is fantastic in only 15 liter volume down to 30hz! If you want a simulation pic let me know.
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Only music and I want 20hz-70hz and smooth rolloff 🙂
I have been advised to ditch the passive radiator, yea, so I'm basically choosing between the XLS10 and the 26W. I need to define the Qtc before choosing the final driver. Could you simulate these two with 40L and 400w amp? Your excel sheet shows the xmas, while winISD and even Boxism dont.
Note that there will be two twin subs, located at the sides of the OB speakers.
I have been advised to ditch the passive radiator, yea, so I'm basically choosing between the XLS10 and the 26W. I need to define the Qtc before choosing the final driver. Could you simulate these two with 40L and 400w amp? Your excel sheet shows the xmas, while winISD and even Boxism dont.
Note that there will be two twin subs, located at the sides of the OB speakers.
Telstar, forget 20hz with 400w input power...this is way too much! 200w is the maximum what you can get because the PR is the limiting factor always in pr systems. You have to activate a subsonic around 15-20hz and you can feed it with 200watts full power 🙂
With 400w you need a driver with 16mm xmax and a pr with 55mm xmax! Impossible! With 400w you only get a maximum of 105db@20hz, not much more than 200w as you can see on the pics !
Here you can see what's going on with 200w XLS10 vs. Scan 26W/4558T00 ...both with 26W/0-00-00 pr...so...the winner is XLS10 😉
With 400w you need a driver with 16mm xmax and a pr with 55mm xmax! Impossible! With 400w you only get a maximum of 105db@20hz, not much more than 200w as you can see on the pics !
Here you can see what's going on with 200w XLS10 vs. Scan 26W/4558T00 ...both with 26W/0-00-00 pr...so...the winner is XLS10 😉
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What about going WITHOUT the PR (400w in this case)?
Note that Xmax is +-12.5mm = 25mm for both drivers -it is more clear in the scanspeak datasheet:
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/26w-4558t00.pdf
Note that Xmax is +-12.5mm = 25mm for both drivers -it is more clear in the scanspeak datasheet:
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/26w-4558t00.pdf
Vented? no thanks. I'm i'm not DIYing, i'll get the 2x BK subs with the xls10, which costs about £330 each and are in closed box, and i have seen the measurements.
Hi katarakt,
das ist sehr interessant für mich, das mit dem kleinen Subwoofer. Ich habe da schon eine ganze Menge Versuche gemacht und die Lautsprecherchassis, nicht nur die Tieftöner, sammeln sich in meiner Bastelstube. Von Spanplattensperrmüll mal ganz abgesehen. Ich bastel ja schon so dreissig Jahre herum. Da könnte ich ein Buch schreiben. ;-)
Zur Zeit habe ich vier Mivoc AW2000 in je einem geschlossenen Gehäuse von 18 Liter als Monosubwoofer im Einsatz und bin damit eigentlich ganz zufrieden... Der Versuch als Bassreflex gab zwar eine etwas tiefere, aber deutlich unsauberere Wiedergabe. Den Unterschied macht die Raumkorrektur wett. Ab 180 Hz kommen dann je Seite ein ein Visaton TI 100 und ein Visaton MHT 12. Jedes Chassis hat einen eigenen Monoblock.
Die Trennung erfolgt sehr steil digital mit dem Convolver von Audiovero, also vom Uli Brüggemann.
Von den Werten her könnte ich mir vorstellen , dass der TB ein ganzes Stück besser sein könnte.
Was für mich besonders gut erscheint, ist der geringe Wirkungsgrad. Momentan muss ich das Eingangssignal der Endstufen stark reduzieren, was sich bei meiner Situation nur durch die Erhöhung des Eingangswiderstands im Signalweg erreichen lässt. Das wirkt sich zumindest im höheren Frequenzbereich hörbar negativ aus. Deshalb benutze ich als Lautstärkeregler den vom Convolver. Der arbeitet intern mit 64bit und hat überhaupt keinen Einfluss auf den Klang bei "normaler" Konzertlautstärke.
Es wäre nett, wenn Du mir das "pic" zumailen könntest.
Gerade lese ich folgendes:
Nun habe ich da aber meine Zweifel, was da bei K+T abgeht.
Chassistest Subtreiber Tangband W6-1139SIF und W8-1363SBF.
Da wird über deren Eignung "für viel Tiefgang aus sehr kleinen Volumina" geschwurbelt.....
Lesen die eigentlich ihre eigenen Klirrdiagramme nicht ?
Ich habe jedenfalls noch keine Bässe gesehen, geschweige denn Subtreiber, die so abartig klirren und dann ausgerechnet noch in dem Bereich, in dem sie eingesetzt werden sollten.
siehe Anhang.
Dem wird dann entgegnet:
Ich schon, und ich finde das jetzt nicht so katastrophal. In einem kleinen geschlossenen Gehäuse wird außerdem die Federsteifigkeit zu einem großen Teil vom eingeschlossenen Luftvolumen aufgebracht, dann sieht das idR schon viel besser aus. Sind halt Subwoofertreiber, da kommt es eher darauf an, dass einem das Ding nicht um die Ohren fliegt.
Quelle:
http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-104-23825.htm
Was soll man dazu sagen? Du hast sicher gute Erfahrungen mit dem Chassis, sonst würdest Du den sicher nicht empfehlen.
Gerade für kleine Gehäuse ist die Auswahl bei den 8 Zöllern nicht gerade groß, wenn man keine Gesamtgüte über 0,70 haben möchte.
Beste nächtliche audiophile Grüße
Michael
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