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Old 1st March 2012, 08:53 PM   #11
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Whats the current price of Neo today?
I do agree that they are these do look very promising.
How does B&C measure xmax?
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Old 1st March 2012, 09:31 PM   #12
limono is offline limono  United States
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18" and only 35 Hz Fs??? I'd like to see 19 Hz and 97 dB with 100W handling power but it will newer happen .
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Old 2nd March 2012, 04:22 PM   #13
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Art, thanks for the info. Appreciate your valuable inputs and insights with the Keystone experiment particularly.
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Old 2nd March 2012, 04:32 PM   #14
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B&C is one of the few that measures Xmax as 10% THD (as specified by AES2-1984 (r2003) for T/S parameters).
B&C SPEAKERS
Which is unlike most that uses Xmax = [(winding depth - magnetic gap depth) / 2] + (magnetic gap depth / 3) or similar.
Which could lead to BS values like for FaitalPro W8N8-200 FaitalPRO - Professional Loudspeakers Made in Italy
Where Xdamage is less than Xmax. Not a bad driver but I would say that the 8.48mm Xmax is false marketing.
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Old 2nd March 2012, 04:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Web View Post
B&C is one of the few that measures Xmax as 10% THD (as specified by AES2-1984 (r2003) for T/S parameters).
B&C SPEAKERS
Which is unlike most that uses Xmax = [(winding depth - magnetic gap depth) / 2] + (magnetic gap depth / 3) or similar.
Which could lead to BS values like for FaitalPro W8N8-200 FaitalPRO - Professional Loudspeakers Made in Italy
Where Xdamage is less than Xmax. Not a bad driver but I would say that the 8.48mm Xmax is false marketing.
Not only are B&C's Xmax figures conservative, their Xmech figures are real too.

I have listened to the BC18SW115 while a 20 Hz sine wave drove it to 50mm peak to peak travel, the suspension only made a slight clicking sound.
It was funny to put golf balls on the cone and watch them fly .

Art
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Old 2nd March 2012, 09:33 PM   #16
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Hey Art I had some fun redoing some earlier outdoor measurements on my pair of the 21sw152-4's in a 5.5 cubic foot sealed airspace last weekend. I put it up the data on the site yesterday. Thought you might be interested since you have the little brothers.

This drive is probably another winner from B&C.
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Old 2nd March 2012, 09:52 PM   #17
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I used the B&C 18PS100 in a subwoofer for my home. It's in a ported 7cuft cabinet. Driver Fs is 30Hz, 95dB sensitivity.
B&C SPEAKERS

I use a lot of their drivers. I've bought many of them from Prosound service.
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Old 2nd March 2012, 10:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Ricci View Post
Hey Art I had some fun redoing some earlier outdoor measurements on my pair of the 21sw152-4's in a 5.5 cubic foot sealed airspace last weekend. I put it up the data on the site yesterday. Thought you might be interested since you have the little brothers.

This driver is probably another winner from B&C.
Josh,

I hope B&C also comes out with a slab magnet 21", the BC 21SW152 models well in the Keystone design, it would be fun to have a louder and lower cabinet of the same size, but I can't afford the Neo prices anymore.

In conversations with Ivan Beaver he mentioned how the B&C 18SW115 had a bit more "punch" than the equivalent 18Sound driver in the same DSL TH-118.

Looking at the impulse response of the BC 21SW152 compared to the LMSR 12", the dual 21s show less ringing, and no "pre-ring".

Do you think sub woofer "punch factor" is related to impulse response?

Is the impulse response of the sealed cabinets due to the cabinet design, speaker design, or both?

What causes an impulse to start before "0" ms ?

Art
Attached Images
File Type: png Impulse.png (151.4 KB, 439 views)
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Old 3rd March 2012, 08:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
I have listened to the BC18SW115 while a 20 Hz sine wave drove it to 50mm peak to peak travel, the suspension only made a slight clicking sound.
This type of info should be in every review about drivers.
Have you ever experienced a "noisy" B&C driver?
Like turbulence or "farting" sound from the cooling?

The two RCF LF15G401 I had where very noisy and made a farting sound that was obnoxious at best. Worked ok though for a TH flown 5m in the air.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 03:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Josh,

I hope B&C also comes out with a slab magnet 21", the BC 21SW152 models well in the Keystone design, it would be fun to have a louder and lower cabinet of the same size, but I can't afford the Neo prices anymore.

In conversations with Ivan Beaver he mentioned how the B&C 18SW115 had a bit more "punch" than the equivalent 18Sound driver in the same DSL TH-118.

Looking at the impulse response of the BC 21SW152 compared to the LMSR 12", the dual 21s show less ringing, and no "pre-ring".

Do you think sub woofer "punch factor" is related to impulse response?

Is the impulse response of the sealed cabinets due to the cabinet design, speaker design, or both?

What causes an impulse to start before "0" ms ?

Art
Truthfully Art I probably need to go back and repost some of the impulse graphs. There are some that are probably not of a signal covering the same frequency range. If one impulse is from a measurement that stops at 200Hz and another goes to 2Khz that alone will make quite a big difference. I have measurements for everything that extend to 125Hz, 200Hz, 300Hz and occasionally higher to a couple of Khz. Since everything needs to be apples vs apples and we are talking pure bass range testing I think that 200Hz seems like the most reasonable cutoff. On these the impulse peak is centered.
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