(split to a new thread)
Hey guys!
I was wondering if I could get some guidance. I have a pair of DIY TP-1 corner horns using Lowther DX4 drivers. I want to add stereo subs to these for a bit of punch. The TP-1 seem to start rolling off at about 40Hz? I'd like to do a TH design that I could fit between one side and the wall, which would restrict the dimensions to 1024mm high and 566mm deep. Width is is up in the air, but I think I'd like to try a 8" or less driver.
So, first question. What driver? Second, any existing design that you might recommend?
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I suspect your Lowther horns start rolling off a lot higher than 40Hz.
I also suspect that there is no 8" made that can match the sensitivity of the horn in the octave below it.
A pair of 10" may have sufficient cone area to get up near the Lowther's output
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Thanks Andrew. As for sensitivity, I see no shame in matching things via active or passive crossover, as if the pair of speakers were to be considered a single multiway speaker.
Hey guys!
I was wondering if I could get some guidance. I have a pair of DIY TP-1 corner horns using Lowther DX4 drivers. I want to add stereo subs to these for a bit of punch. The TP-1 seem to start rolling off at about 40Hz? I'd like to do a TH design that I could fit between one side and the wall, which would restrict the dimensions to 1024mm high and 566mm deep. Width is is up in the air, but I think I'd like to try a 8" or less driver.
So, first question. What driver? Second, any existing design that you might recommend?
---
I suspect your Lowther horns start rolling off a lot higher than 40Hz.
I also suspect that there is no 8" made that can match the sensitivity of the horn in the octave below it.
A pair of 10" may have sufficient cone area to get up near the Lowther's output
---
Thanks Andrew. As for sensitivity, I see no shame in matching things via active or passive crossover, as if the pair of speakers were to be considered a single multiway speaker.
Hi luvdunhill,
The Exodus Anarchy TH was my first thought too, and they have currently a pre-order option @ $68.95; but there is a definite problem with the sensitivity, only 84.7dB. Even in littlemike's TH it only hits 87.6dB @ 50Hz.
I does have good excursion capability though (Xmax=12.5mm).
In the collaborative thread (Post #3279) JLH mentioned the Ciare 10NDH-3 (as he says: it's a bit pricey). It's 10",but maybe something along those lines would get there more easily.
I once modelled the Lowther TP1 with a Fostex FE206E, and ended up with 112db 1W/1m from about 100-300Hz, the model was ~3dB down @ 75Hz / ~6dB down @55Hz / ~10dB down @49Hz (obviously, this is @ 0.5 x Pi / corner loading). Do you have any measurements?
How low do you want this new sub to go?
Regards,
The Exodus Anarchy TH was my first thought too, and they have currently a pre-order option @ $68.95; but there is a definite problem with the sensitivity, only 84.7dB. Even in littlemike's TH it only hits 87.6dB @ 50Hz.
I does have good excursion capability though (Xmax=12.5mm).
In the collaborative thread (Post #3279) JLH mentioned the Ciare 10NDH-3 (as he says: it's a bit pricey). It's 10",but maybe something along those lines would get there more easily.
I once modelled the Lowther TP1 with a Fostex FE206E, and ended up with 112db 1W/1m from about 100-300Hz, the model was ~3dB down @ 75Hz / ~6dB down @55Hz / ~10dB down @49Hz (obviously, this is @ 0.5 x Pi / corner loading). Do you have any measurements?
How low do you want this new sub to go?
Regards,
This ~132 L net DSL DTS20 concept using the same two 8" TB W8-740P should have enough peak SPL capability and might can be folded up to fit or at least give you a starting point to modify.
GM
I don't find the low sensitivity a problem. The Hornresp sims are (IIRC) in half space. Put them against a wall in a room and sensitivity increases somewhat. Even so, I'd advise active crossovers with the option to change the relative levels.
Even when I paired them with some 98dB@1w 12" coaxials, the THs coped fine - this was in the same 10m by 20m room in which I've tried other experiments with these. Turned it up loud (give each 12" driver around 15w to play with) playing It's Oh So Quiet by Bjork, and the bass was plentiful, no signs of giving up or indeed struggling.
Chris
The T-6 is a fair bit larger, and gives up a couple Hz of extension when compared to the Insubnia, but is definitely worthy of mention because of the efficiency. With the Tang Band W8-740C drivers I am using in my T-6s (84 dB/1W), I measured 93 dB at 2.00V, 1 meter, groundplane, from one cabinet, and peak SPLs of over 115 dB at 15% THD as I approached the power handling limits of the driver.
It can be made narrower to properly load a smaller driver, but at 11.75" internal, several 8s and 10s work well in it, and it only takes a single 4X8 sheet of 1/2" ply per cabinet. With a capable 10, bracing would be a good idea, I have not braced any of mine, but I have only built them loaded with 8s so far.
I designed the T-6 to get the most sub I could out of a single 4X8 sheet of ply, and use some drivers I have on the shelf. They have replaced the Shiva X2 tapped horn I made a few years back, and they sound good enough that I've not replaced them yet. I've got several other "large" designs that will certainly replace them in the works, but nothing has been built and tested yet.
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That's an excellent question. I have some anadotical evidence. I had a pair of Chili Changs that seemed to go lower than the TP1 and I have a Jordan JX92 two way that is ported and definitely doesn't. Your measurements look plausible.
Interesting, thanks!
I think I'd rather build and design my own active crossover and spend my energy there. At $350 shipped for a pair of the Insubnia is very hard to pass up. I could spend my resources on the crossover and second amplifier.
wow, thanks for weighing in! Those do in fact look much better.
... as do these!
I think this is something I'd like to revisit after I have a chance to put together my first active crossover. Doing thing on the digital side doesn't really have appeal to me, so I'd like to make something to suit my peculiar setup (balanced preamp delivering lots of volts to a pair of balanced mono First Watt F4 power buffers). I think I'd rather approach this problem again once I have some measurements and have settled on a amp and crossover design. The Insubnia design (and kits) let me more or less check that off the list and go pursue the two other pieces to the puzzle.
Sounds reasonable?
Hi luvdunhill,
"...(balanced preamp delivering lots of volts to a pair of balanced mono First Watt F4 power buffers..."
Would be interesting to see what you come up with for a balanced active subwoofer crossover. Maybe you can post your results here. Personally, I'd just tap the preamp to poweramp connection, and leave the TP-1s alone, I also recommend multiple subwoofers distributed in the room.
Regards,
"...(balanced preamp delivering lots of volts to a pair of balanced mono First Watt F4 power buffers..."
Would be interesting to see what you come up with for a balanced active subwoofer crossover. Maybe you can post your results here. Personally, I'd just tap the preamp to poweramp connection, and leave the TP-1s alone, I also recommend multiple subwoofers distributed in the room.
Regards,
I got the Exodus Anarchy subs built and the crossover at least simulated for 1kHz crossover point and now to make sure it will work for something other than this. So, I have a 6, 12, 18, 24db/octave slopes to work with, I assume I want as steep as possible here. So, assuming 24dB/octave how high could I cross this over? What is a more reasonable value to also try? I'd like to model the active crossover with a few values to make sure it's robust.
anything using a 12" driver (or pair of 12" drivers)?
I'm tempted to play with this H-frame design:
Dipole protos
It would be a bonus to use the drivers in a TH as well, down the line.
Hi luvdunhill,
The TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC Subwoofer seems to be a very versatile driver:
TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC Subwoofer 293-650 .
Regards,
The TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC Subwoofer seems to be a very versatile driver:
TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC Subwoofer 293-650 .
Regards,
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