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Old 21st December 2011, 11:59 AM   #1
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Default Subwoofer system help needed

Hi All,

New to this group…

I am looking for some guidance on a subwoofer system.

Currently I am setting up a combination home theater/listening room in my house. The room is 27’ x 36’, with walls covered in carpeting, and a 7’x10’ ‘sound booth. (It was a sound studio). I have been collecting/building speakers for years. For the home theater I have 5 Klipschorns, one real one, and four I built. (I found that for a DIY’er, since I don’t have to make a profit, I could build them no-holds-barred). This only makes it a 5.0 system
For other speakers, I inherited 2 AR4x’s, 2 Celestion 3’s, 2 Bose 201’s (I replaced all the drivers). 2 Sony 3-ways, 8 minimus 7’s, 2 minimus 77’s, 2 Speakerlab Super 7’s, Kenwood subs, Infinity, and seven large custom-built simple horn enclosures and sealed enclosures with numerous types of WE and Altec drivers. I sold the other WE 713C drivers and horns on Ebay (oops).

Everything is home run back to the booth, so the configuration can be anything. Personally I am a fan of active crossovers, so this means a lot of amplifier channels, but amps are cheap nowadays. Most of the amps I built from scratch myself; for the Khorns I bi-amp and run 400W rms, (except for the real Khorn, as it won’t take that). I have 19” racks in the booth, so I can just pick up a stack of amps.

So, the Khorns really only go down to about 35Hz… and I need to extend the low end, to a degree that will keep up with them. I have a fair amount of space, so enclosure size is not that critical. A true horn that will go down to 20Hz or less (at high decibels) will be huge, so I started looking around….

Looking at Parts Express and Madisound, I could build something; say with 18” woofers (the plate amps are really inexpensive, so power is not an issue).

Need some guidance here…. Ported, sealed, potentially a horn?
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Old 21st December 2011, 12:08 PM   #2
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for my system I am building a 1/4 wavelength tappered horn subwoofer. It is not a true tapped horn, but is much smaller. This design is -3db at 18hz and capabable of 120 DB with corner loading and only 200 watts of input power.

Tang Band Tang Band W8Q-1071F 8 X 12 box reccomendation

I would go with something similar, maybe two of them, each with a 12 inch driver. This would also be nice to keep up with your horn theme!

For a true tapped horn, I always wanted to build cowans 30hz model just for fun, the driver is hard to find though:

http://www.cowanaudio.com/

Last edited by permo; 21st December 2011 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 21st December 2011, 01:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by permo View Post
for my system I am building a 1/4 wavelength tappered horn subwoofer. It is not a true tapped horn, but is much smaller. This design is -3db at 18hz and capabable of 120 DB with corner loading and only 200 watts of input power.

Tang Band Tang Band W8Q-1071F 8 X 12 box reccomendation

I would go with something similar, maybe two of them, each with a 12 inch driver. This would also be nice to keep up with your horn theme!

For a true tapped horn, I always wanted to build cowans 30hz model just for fun, the driver is hard to find though:

William Cowan's Homepage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks!

I am going to start reading up on tapped horns (it has been quite a while since I built a speaker, but it all comes back). I like the relative simplicity of the design. The cowans 30hz model looks reasonable in size; if the 18hz model is less than 9 feet tall, it would also do well ;-)

I will see what I can find for design software on the web for these. Power is not an issue, and I saw some potent drivers online recently.

Will follow up with what I come up with...
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Old 21st December 2011, 01:09 PM   #4
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well, if space really isn't an issue then...


My Dual Tang Band 8x12 Tapped Horn Project - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

You need to download softare called hornresponse, it's free.
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Old 21st December 2011, 01:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by permo View Post
well, if space really isn't an issue then...


My Dual Tang Band 8x12 Tapped Horn Project - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

You need to download softare called hornresponse, it's free.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, thanks again!.

I will get hornresponse... The Dual Tang Tapped horn project box is about 21 ft^3... big, but reasonable. I am also going to look at front-loaded horns.
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Old 21st December 2011, 10:28 PM   #6
kevinh is offline kevinh  United States
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If possible you would want multiple subs wayne parnham had a post on that thread concerning setting up a room with corner-horn (post #10)
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Old 21st December 2011, 11:52 PM   #7
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What is the dynamic range and bandwidth you want out of this system? Be as specific as possible. Do you like the sound of horns, the breath and depth of Bass reflex, the simple clarity of sealed systems? I'm positive, with enough information, you will get many different options. Most of which will be beyond the imagination of most audio nuts. I'm only saying this because the depth of technical knowledge contained within this forum is simply unmatched. I've been a professional system designer and sound engineer for 30 years and have never experienced anything like it.
Be prepared to go down the rabbet hole.

Sincerely,
revb
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Old 22nd December 2011, 01:33 AM   #8
mdocod is offline mdocod  United States
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For a room that size, I would want at minimum a pair of 18" drivers. More wouldn't hurt For the money these are killer: Dayton Audio DCS450-4 18" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-475

Give them a decent size vented box and you can play everything right down to 20hz without a hitch.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 05:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revboden View Post
What is the dynamic range and bandwidth you want out of this system? Be as specific as possible. Do you like the sound of horns, the breath and depth of Bass reflex, the simple clarity of sealed systems? I'm positive, with enough information, you will get many different options. Most of which will be beyond the imagination of most audio nuts. I'm only saying this because the depth of technical knowledge contained within this forum is simply unmatched. I've been a professional system designer and sound engineer for 30 years and have never experienced anything like it.
Be prepared to go down the rabbet hole.

Sincerely,
revb
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, revb.

I came to this site, because after reading a fair number of threads, this seems like the place to be.

It's ok to go down the rabbit hole; that is why I have a toy brindle rat terrier to go with me.

So, personally, I like horns and sealed enclosures. Only so-so on base reflex, but that may be due to the fact that I never got them quite right, and they sounded boomy.
I like the dynamic range of the horns, though to some they may sound shrill, and I have struggled with flat frequency response for some time. The sealed enclosures sound good, but with a huge penalty on efficiency (though power is dirt cheap nowadays).
One of my next projects is a tube amplifier (I was given a pile of NIB Genelex KT-66's, KT-88's, and a few hundred others. I started on a really high power amp, using 4CX1000B's, and gathered the power supply, output transformer and forced-air cooling components, but I think that is becoming entirely impractical).

So what I need is a subwoofer that will handle the octave below where the Khorns roll off (let's say 15-35Hz range, though they can go higher), and can keep up with them.

All the other speakers I have besides the Khorns are a motley mess of enclosure types and efficiencies and frequency responses.... So maybe I should just leave them out of the equation. (My dad worked for Bell Labs, and became interested in audio in the 1950's, so he had access to lots of WE drivers, so they are good, but the speakers are a mix of simple horns, bass reflex and sealed.) Not sure how they would all sound together.

So, bandwidth for the entire system, let's say 15Hz-20kHz virtually flat, dynamic range (a lot, but the existing speakers cover that in the 35-20K range, to ear-damaging levels.)

The lowest note on a pipe organ is between 16-32Hz. (Though on certain pipe organs, CCCCC, is only 8Hz).
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Old 22nd December 2011, 11:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1herenow View Post
bla bla bla, dynamic range = a lot
Please define "lot". Is that a metric lot or an imperial lot. We works in numbers around here


later,
revb
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