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Old 9th December 2011, 02:08 AM   #1
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Default Good subs for dubstep, trance

I would like to build a pa rig, that i can use for dubstep, mainly trance, and rap. It is for about 100 to 500 people in a school gym size.
I would like to keep the price of the woofer under $300 for one.

I was looking at the peavey low rider 18", but i do not know how it would handle stuff like dubstep, mainly trance, and rap.

Also i was looking at the IXL-18 (iST Ltd.) because it cost the same as the peavey where i live. and it blow my friends front door on his house. I also know about the sensitivity is not as good as pa speakers.
But how would it handle in a pa setting, compared to the peavey.
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Old 9th December 2011, 02:20 AM   #2
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Old 9th December 2011, 03:03 AM   #3
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I have looked at horns but everyone told me that the horns would not be good for dubstep, and scoops are not the best. I had made a tuba 60 with the lab 15, but it is big. I could fit my refrigerator in the same space, lol.
So i am looking for other options. or ideas.
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Old 9th December 2011, 03:53 AM   #4
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Where is jhon?
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Old 9th December 2011, 04:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhon View Post
I have looked at horns but everyone told me that the horns would not be good for dubstep
I've never actually listened to dubstep, but to my knowledge the reason for this is because dub step has lots of infrasonic content IE 15hz right?

The solution, then isn't to go away from a horn, but rather to find the right horn for the job.... the Gjallerhorn

Gjallerhorn

I'm not sure if the Mach V Pi 18 is a drop in replacement for the LMS but it'd be what i'd be looking at.
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Old 9th December 2011, 07:36 AM   #6
mdocod is offline mdocod  United States
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Hello,

This will be my first post here so lets see how I do....

In my experience most sound reinforcement sub designs are based on maximizing efficiency and SPL capability in the ~35-100 hz range (range varies some but this is a general ballpark that most systems shoot for). Modern electronic music is creating a demand for reproduction in the "bottom active" (~20-40hz) but very few designs out there are geared towards that. The driver characteristics of the peavey low rider are typical of sound reinforcement drivers. Maximize efficiency, drop the bottom octave. The peveay can be forced to play the lower frequencies either at the cost of quite a bit of efficiency and box size, or at the cost of raw amplification power and efficiency. Or some mixture of all of the above. Ideally speaking, it's better to try to find a driver (or multiple drivers) that share a more ideal set of characteristics to stay reasonably efficient in the bottom end. In my experience, this usually means having more driver surface area.

Extraordinarily long "throw" woofer designs do not lend themselves to efficiency and generally suffer from NEEDING enourmous amplification in order to play loud regardless of box design. I recommend increasing displacement via surface area rather than via excursion. Increasing driver surface area will reduce demands on amplification and improve the long term reliability of the system as you can have drivers and amplifiers that are not overworked.

Consider the following graphs..

Comparison of efficiency (simulated 100W input):
Click the image to open in full size.

Comparison of maximum output as limited by Xmax and power handling:
Click the image to open in full size.

The pinkish line is a single peveay low rider.
The white line is 2 X 18" classic subs.
The orange line is 8 X dayton 10" "DVC" subs.
The yellow line is a single IST 18" unit.

All of those listed above are given 24ft^3, vented, and tuned to 23hz to work in. Each configuration would have about the same driver cost as well (~$250)

The light yellow line is the IST unit in a 24ft^3 sealed box.

The Green line is what the peveay low rider is really more well suited to do. It's a 14 cu-ft 6th order bandpass configuration. One of many possible loading options that brings out better efficiency and maximum output where most music needs it but leaves the bottom octave off.

Notice how using more drivers, even though they are less efficient drivers, actually results in an improvement in system efficiency and maximum output across most of the desired range.

I should point out that I tried to keep things fair across the board on the comparisons by giving each speaker system the same amount of box space... Another comparison that's important to point out is that each of these driver configurations would actually have different ideal box sizes where you get a nice tradeoff of efficiency vs box size. The 8x10" dayton drivers would actually benefit from more box space and with added box space will actually provide greater efficiancy than any of the other options compared . The 2x18" daytons are ideal with ~12ft^3 per box as it is. The peveay doesn't need 24ft^3, half that much would be fine. the IST unit is very unusual in that it delivers a near flat performance right down to ~20hz in a box as small as ~7ft^3 (but requires an additional ~3ft^3 just for a port large enough to tune it without major puffing noises)

------------------------

Seriously consider using more drivers, A single 18" is going to have a hard time with a 500 person venue IMO.

Eric
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Old 9th December 2011, 03:12 PM   #7
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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idd leave the ixl alone ,and go with a pro driver in a tapped horn flat to 30~35 hz
there are plenty topics for 30 to 35 hz subs,i also hear the b&c tbx 18 is on sale now.
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Old 9th December 2011, 04:12 PM   #8
johnr66 is offline johnr66  United States
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I built a low tuned sub that would get into the teens range. I could feel my wooden floor resonate at 20Hz and make little ripples of water in the sink but because human hearing response rolls off quite a bit, the bass lacked impact of the higher frequencies. I agree with the others and not worry about trying to get so low. Build a sub with an F3 point in the mid 30Hz range and enjoy the impact of the bass you can hear (and feel).
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Old 9th December 2011, 09:56 PM   #9
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Agreed, for pa use you'll be notching out the standing waves in a gymnasium sized room to keep Intelligibility up. No need to go really low or you'll just make audio mud.
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Old 9th December 2011, 10:04 PM   #10
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thanks mdocod for the info.

I have built the tuba 60 horn witch can handle the very low bass, but is is big. I could build more but don't want to.
I know i have to use 4 18" driver to start. And i am ok with big boxes, most likely any 18" box is not going to be bigger than the tuba 60 lol.

So i should:
"recommend increasing displacement via surface area rather than via excursion" look for 21" drivers (but do 21" woofers lack punch?) or
have 4 or so of the IXL - 18. or
just get a good box for the 18" low rider and hi- pass at 25HZ - 30HZ.

but i would like to have the low bass. But i manly play trance/ house so it is not really a big deal if i hi - pass the subs at 30Hz.
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