More Bass / Less Money

[Patrick Bateman]

On my forum, I keep a list of which sub drivers offer the most bang for the buck. We have a new champion this week, from Canada. It displaced the Tempest as the biggest 'bang for the buck' sub driver.

Details here:

Audio Psychosis • View topic - The Bass Race

[bjorno]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

On my forum, I keep a list of which sub drivers offer the most bang for the buck. We have a new champion this week, from Canada. It displaced the Tempest as the biggest 'bang for the buck' sub driver.

Details here:

Audio Psychosis • View topic - The Bass Race

Hi Patric,

Good to know and if put in use: The Tempest driver promise good performance too:

b

[ODougbo]

#2 doesn't look like a couch pototo either.

Where would one buy one here in the lower 48?

[just a guy]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

On my forum, I keep a list of which sub drivers offer the most bang for the buck. [/url]

I love these kinds of lists. But it should be mentioned that because of the different standards that different manufacturers use to rate xmax, the results are a bit misleading.

For example, I think Eminence rates xmax at the 10 percent distortion point.
Exodus, I believe rates xmax at 30 percent distortion.
I have no idea how Mach5 does it, but I'd be willing to bet it's not 10 percent. Same with TC Sounds woofers, CSS woofers, and all the super high rated xmax woofers.

So it should be kept in mind (and perhaps noted in the Bass Race thread) that without Klippel data you very well might be (probably are) comparing apples to oranges in terms of xmax, and by extension, displacement.

[454Casull]

Originally Posted by just a guy

I love these kinds of lists. But it should be mentioned that because of the different standards that different manufacturers use to rate xmax, the results are a bit misleading.

For example, I think Eminence rates xmax at the 10 percent distortion point.
Exodus, I believe rates xmax at 30 percent distortion.
I have no idea how Mach5 does it, but I'd be willing to bet it's not 10 percent. Same with TC Sounds woofers, CSS woofers, and all the super high rated xmax woofers.

So it should be kept in mind (and perhaps noted in the Bass Race thread) that without Klippel data you very well might be (probably are) comparing apples to oranges in terms of xmax, and by extension, displacement.

Feel free to donate money/drivers (this goes for everyone, not just you) to bikinpunk at DIYMA. He's got the Klippel rig set up for T-S and raw motor/suspension curves, and will soon be getting HD/IMD capabilities too.

[Saturnus]

Seems like the list is made based on Xmax and not Xlim. That means all overhung drivers will be unfairly advantaged in this list.

[just a guy]

Originally Posted by 454Casull

Feel free to donate money/drivers (this goes for everyone, not just you) to bikinpunk at DIYMA. He's got the Klippel rig set up for T-S and raw motor/suspension curves, and will soon be getting HD/IMD capabilities too.

I'm aware of him and his work, he's in a few different forums under different names. I'm not sure if he's interested in sub drivers, he's been testing lots of mids/midwoofers. Either way, I can't even afford these drivers, let alone paying the (international) shipping back and forth to bikinpunk.

I don't think a Klippel test on every single interesting woofer is really necessary anyway, although it would be really nice. The most important thing is to realize that there are differences in how xmax is determined, and as Saturnus pointed out it would be nice to see Xlim for each driver in the Bass Race list.

[just a guy]

And one more note before I let this go.

I realize that this list is ONLY concerned with displacement, but more displacement doesn't always = more bass. At least a cursory glance should be given to the driver specs to determine how it is likely to be used. Sure, the Alpha15 has decent displacement/$$$ but it's almost completely useless in anything besides OB, and on OB it really won't have much bass at all. You could get more bass out of a regular 10 inch driver (and certainly a whole lot more from a low priced Beta15) in a ported box.

Anyway, I don't mean to be nitpicky, I still like lists like this but there are so many other things to consider than manufacturer rated displacement.

[Saturnus]

Displacement per watt would also be nice if you're really going to do a list.

A quick and dirty calculation of 2 of the drivers given (the Eminence and the TC sounds) shows that the Eminence can displace 2.5 times as much air per watt (10 times better efficiency but at roughly half the Fs) , and although limited to 200Wrms that correlates precise by 2.5 times to the 500Wrms of the TC sounds, so in effect both drivers can displace precisely the same amount of air in total within their specified power handling.

[just a guy]

Originally Posted by Saturnus

Displacement per watt would also be nice if you're really going to do a list.

This opens up another can of worms though. Displacement per watt depends almost entirely on the alignment you put the driver in (at subwoofer frequencies at least). You get a whole lot less displacement (but a whole lot more bass) out of a horn compared to OB. Since the Alpha15 is useless outside of OB useage, there's no "standard" alignment that you can rate all the drivers by in terms of displacement per watt.

A quick and dirty calculation of 2 of the drivers given (the Eminence and the TC sounds) shows that the Eminence can displace 2.5 times as much air per watt (10 times better efficiency but at roughly half the Fs) , and although limited to 200Wrms that correlates precise by 2.5 times to the 500Wrms of the TC sounds, so in effect both drivers can displace precisely the same amount of air in total within their specified power handling.

Yeah, but dont' forget that the raw driver's sensitivity AND power handling spec is also open to interpretation and presented differently by a lot of manufacturers. Even if there was a standard, power handling is also directly related to the alignment. For example, a driver in a big horn can handle way more power than the same driver in a small closed box. I think Danley said the Lab12 driver (rated at 400 watts) should be able to handle close to 2000 watts each (assuming a stack of 8 horns or more in 2pi space.)

So it's not easy to directly compare drivers made by 2 different manufacturers bases solely on their xmax and/or sensitivity and/or power rating.