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Old 12th November 2011, 08:19 PM   #11
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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It's not an iso chamber, it's the throat you are looking at. Think PPSL.
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Old 12th November 2011, 08:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post
It's not an iso chamber, it's the throat you are looking at. Think PPSL.
The picture on the left shows the mouth with the left outer speaker removed, showing the inner driver which loads directly in to the TH throat.

The throat is not visible, though you can see a "V" wedge in the center of the horn at the back of the cabinet that leads towards the throat.

The magnet of the inner driver is clearly visible, indicating there is no push pull arrangement. The outer speaker is coupled to the inner through the small "isobaric" chamber.
The picture on the right shows the cabinet placed vertically, with all speakers in place, only two are visible in the mouth.

If the speakers were loaded PP, the isobaric chamber could have been made much smaller, and both driver's magnet vents would have been open to outside air, though the inner driver would have vented through a long horn. The choice to load the way they did is an interesting one, probably requred to get the desired throat compression ratio without a too complicated build.

Although Bennett was not particularly impressed with the sound quality, it certainly seems to be a design that can put out lots of output, and the cabinets had been through a lot of test drives, the heat build up in the isobaric chamber does not seem to have affected the B&C drivers.

Art
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Old 12th November 2011, 08:47 PM   #13
woof is offline woof  United States
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Originally Posted by mikehende View Post
That's not a cabinet?
No, but in 3.4 cu ft you can have an F3 of 33hz/F10 of 15hz with 2000 watts power handling.
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Old 12th November 2011, 10:54 PM   #14
Zero D is offline Zero D  United Kingdom
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Interesting design I have to say it looks like an isobaric to me too. Due to seeing the exposed inner driver, inside the hole cutout where the other driver would be mounted, & is on the other side.

Mounting drivers isobaricly equates to only needing half the volume normally required for the same f3 etc, which explains some of it's advantages. Doing that though decreases the SPL by - 3dB, but is made up for, & more, by the particular horn loading method. Plus they are using 2000W drivers, B&C by the looks of them

Even though they are not 20Hz - 3dB as advertised they are still a beast. What they actually sound like ?
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Old 12th November 2011, 11:21 PM   #15
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Interesting design I have to say it looks like an isobaric to me too. Due to seeing the exposed inner driver, inside the hole cutout where the other driver would be mounted, & is on the other side.

Mounting drivers isobaricly equates to only needing half the volume normally required for the same f3 etc, which explains some of it's advantages. Doing that though decreases the SPL by - 3dB, but is made up for, & more, by the particular horn loading method. Plus they are using 2000W drivers, B&C by the looks of them

Even though they are not 20Hz - 3dB as advertised they are still a beast. What they actually sound like ?
I have not heard them, Bennett Prescott's review was linked in #10.
Dave Rat, Red Hot Chili Peppers engineer, Rat sound owner says they are "game changing loud".
Dave and I competed for and worked with many of the same loud bands in the 1980s and 1990s, if he says it is loud in 2011, its effing loud.

But, back to the OP, though the M421 are super loud, FLH still have the best transient impact, the Martin designs pack a wallop.

Tapped horns do allow for quite a wallop in a smaller package, and don't requre multiples to go low, but are not quite as punchy (technical term for accurate transient response) as a FLH.
I'd expect the isobaric M421 to be less punchy than a normal TH due to the large air spring between the drivers.

Art Welter
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Old 12th November 2011, 11:36 PM   #16
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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I was just thinking of a good way to explain what I see when I realized that the fold is the same as Arts Keystone sub but with two drivers in it. Do you guys understand what I am talking about now? The inner driver is another tap in the horn path and that's why you get the boost and then the big cancellation.
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Old 13th November 2011, 12:00 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post
I was just thinking of a good way to explain what I see when I realized that the fold is the same as Arts Keystone sub but with two drivers in it. Do you guys understand what I am talking about now? The inner driver is another tap in the horn path and that's why you get the boost and then the big cancellation.
NEO Dan,

Your scenario would not be isobaric, and McCaully specifically says the design is isobaric.

My buddy Bennett knows what isobaric is, the manufacturer he reps also use an isobaric arrangement sub, also using B&C drivers.
He observed the M421 was isobaric when checking polarity and condition of the interior speakers.
You did notice how he noticed the M421 was not anywhere near the published specs, right?
Bennett would have also called BS if the cabinet was not isobaric, he pulls no punches.

You can believe what you want about the cabinet design, I'll choose to rely on the manufacture's description and first hand observations.

Art
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Old 13th November 2011, 12:04 AM   #18
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Fair enough.
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Old 13th November 2011, 01:45 PM   #19
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The reason why I am looking into this guys is that I haven't heard many different modern designs so I am clueless in that arear, I can swear by the Martins because standing 25-50' in front of them you could feel the pounding in your gut and no other speaker in my experience have ever done it like that and remember those martins are not for "deep" bass which brings me to my application.

I need a cab with a similar type of bass for my yard, I have a Sonic MR218 Bass reflex for the short throw deep bass, I am seeking a long throw cabinet for the punch bass like the Martin, keeping in mind that I need only one cab, which cabs out there do you guys think I can look into which will give me the type of bass I am seeking please? I need something affordable or if I can build myself then even better.

BTW, I have tried placing folded horn cabs like Cerwin Vega L36 sideways and also tried W-Bins but no where near the same effect as the martin, way I see it, only 15" subs can give that effect I am seeking so 18" would be a stretch?

Last edited by mikehende; 13th November 2011 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 13th November 2011, 06:51 PM   #20
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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There is no real one cab solution like the Martin. The Martin has a mouth big enough to support it's LF extension/internal pathlength. If you want a sub that has a 30Hz extension the mouth you will need to support it is a cluster of 4 subs with something approaching a 4'x8' mouth. This is why no one single box solution is working well for you. The L36 is short on internal pathlength.
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Last edited by NEO Dan; 13th November 2011 at 06:53 PM.
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