Wanting defined midbass from my 10" subwoofers

[impuls60]

My problem is sluggish bass in the 80-120hz region from my two 10" subwoofers. My small fronts struggle with produsing the level I want in this region so I would like to xo my subs in the 200 hz range.

I've got two of these running on a mono amp (with phase, highpass and lowpass filters);
99W10.17P - XTZ | Sound in balance
Since I mostly use them for music im wondering if I could swap out the 10" aluminium seas woofers with a midwoofer.. I had this i mind;
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=294-679

I'm hoping this would give the sound a more defined and punchy midbass all the way up to 200hz. I dont care that the deep bass suffers since I can always get another sub
Part of my problem is that I don't know the volume of the enclosures so I can't use Winisd to model the new setup correctly..But I would guess that the volume is between 30 to 40 litres.. The port tuning can easily be changed to accomodate the new driver..
So I'm looking for an easy solution for my midbass problem
If anyone have any thoughts on better replacements, or why this shouldn't sound good, all comments would be greatly appreciated!

[TheBaronGroog]

It's probably your small mids integration issues that make the subs sound "slow"-what happens if you raise the crossover with the existing subs?

[impuls60]

It doesn't change the "slowness" enough when I raise the crossover.. When raising the xo the muddiness becomes even worse up the midbass range The subs sounds slow even without music from the fronts.. So I dont think its an integration problem.. That said I think most subs are too slow for music above 60-70hz. I used a Morel ultimo sub in a closed box and thats a the only sub I've heard playing reasonably good 125hz.. But it didn't play very loud.
My midrange is a 6.5" with a 2.5way xo, and I might add a highpass filter in the 150-200hz range if the sub mods works out. My ultimate goal is to mimic the sound from a 3 way speaker and have plenty of bass from 80 to 200hz. Btw I think the large livingroom room is to blame for the lack of midbass..

[pinkmouse]

Have you tried switching polarity on the subs?

[tinitus]

it is important that the acoustic rolloff matches that of your main speakers

and as suggested, also phase, which is part of the rolloff too

how you place your speakers and sub is equally important

basicly, the higher you cross, the more difficult it could become

[Michael Chua]

Originally Posted by impuls60

It doesn't change the "slowness" enough when I raise the crossover.. When raising the xo the muddiness becomes even worse up the midbass range

I find subwoofers are good for below 80Hz. I was never able to get any definition for mid-bass.

My approach nowadays is to use a normal woofer for mid-bass instead. I tune the box for 65-70Hz F3. Below that, the subwoofer takes over. This way, I can control the mid-bass.

[impuls60]

Thats exactly what I was thinking Chua!
I have tried adjusting the phase on my amp but that doesn't affect the problem very much.. My sub system i designed to work with the fronts (all Xtz). Xtz use the same components in a floor stander, and here the sub is rolled off well below 100hz.. And I think the subs "slowness" is the only reason for that! I think the problem lies in the subwoofers themselves. Im thinking that when they've been replaced then tinitus suggestions becomes important. I have already tried all the mentioned suggestions but nothing helps.. Only gives more\less bass, doesn't affect the punch bass at all.
Does anyone have any suggestions on normal 10" woofers with xmax over 8mm?

[tinitus]

Originally Posted by impuls60

-------- doesn't affect the punch bass at all.
Does anyone have any suggestions on normal 10" woofers with xmax over 8mm?

punch ?

then I would suggest active crossover between woofers and main speaker
basicly a 3way, instead of 2way with sub

maybe like 12db
somewhere between 150 to 350hz
depends on many other factors

don't know if the sub then will do any good at all
maybe, maybe not

[Michael Chua]

Originally Posted by impuls60

And I think the subs "slowness" is the only reason for that! I think the problem lies in the subwoofers themselves.

Yes, it is. Subwoofers excel in the low frequencies, 40Hz and below. Try to use them for double duty work, they sound "flat; lifeless; slow" with mid-bass.

Originally Posted by impuls60

Does anyone have any suggestions on normal 10" woofers with xmax over 8mm?

I'm seriously considering this SEAS CA26RE4X.

If you plan to cross at 500Hz or lower, this SEAS CA26RFX is more suitable.

My reason for choosing the CA26RE4X is I need the extension up to 1,500Hz to cross to my compression driver (10" 2-way).

Right now, I'm in the midst of building boxes for the 8" USHER 8137A (3-way) and a Peerless 830869 (2-way with compression driver). I plan to work on the 10" after these.

[m R g S r]

Originally Posted by Michael Chua

Yes, it is. Subwoofers excel in the low frequencies, 40Hz and below. Try to use them for double duty work, they sound "flat; lifeless; slow" with mid-bass.

He is setting up this system mostly for music, i don't think there is such demand for running a subwoofer 40hz and down. Unless he is listening to mostly electronic stuff....