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Old 17th October 2011, 08:03 PM   #11
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Yes, that's exactly my point. Subwoofers are great for Home Theater, not for music. Tried all sorts, was never really satisfied with any. The mid-bass lacks definition and attack.

Since my listening is only music, I use them to supplement my woofers below. 60-70Hz.
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Old 17th October 2011, 11:40 PM   #12
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What delay setting are you using for the mains? what order crossovers are you using?

Last edited by revboden; 17th October 2011 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 17th October 2011, 11:58 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by impuls60 View Post
My problem is sluggish bass in the 80-120hz region from my two 10" subwoofers. My small fronts struggle with produsing the level I want in this region so I would like to xo my subs in the 200 hz range.
Where are the subs located in relation to your front speakers?

With that high a x-over, they should brobably be mounted right next to the front speakers, or maybe dead-center between them. Of course, that might not be the best position for low frequency response, but you should take that location as the starting point for your testing.
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Old 18th October 2011, 08:21 AM   #14
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The subs and fronts(book shelves speakers) are modules placed on top of each other. (I have the same setup that is used in the pictures from Xtz, in the first post.) Doesn't give much room for moving them about I'm now convinced that the only solution is to change the elements to normal woofers
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Old 18th October 2011, 09:18 AM   #15
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I think a lot of earlier posters are circling kind of similar issues: get the sub-bass out of the woofers. It is the music below, say 90 Hz, that requires a separate treatment (and going mixed bass below 140 Hz works just fine). You can make a purpose-built sub (or better, two) and put them in acoustically strategic places (using the heterogeneous principle) in your room.

With the low bass out of your woofers, the woofers are free to sound as nice as they can.

"Slowness" generally has little to do with the behaviour of your woofers, aside from plain old freq curves. Only deficiencies in the output of the upper-range speakers or excess of low bass leads to the perception of "slowness" (BTW, your ear can't always tell those apart).

Hard for anyone to guess what your system sounds like, but my guess is that you are pumping too much bass into those woofers (or making them voice too much bass by using boom-box suspension) and that makes them sound lumpy. Or maybe turgid. Or maybe kind of ooomphy.

Bi- or tri-amping is a good way to go too. Betcha few low-level cross-overs let the speakers perform much like the design says they should. Only a mic test says for sure.

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Last edited by bentoronto; 18th October 2011 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 18th October 2011, 10:10 AM   #16
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I've tried using the highpass filter (at 50hz?)on the mono amp and it helps a lot.. But the subs still sounds too slow for my taste.
I've also tried inline fmods highpass filters(120hz xo) on the tube amp that drives the fronts.. Huge improvement on the loudness and clearity at higher volumes But since the subs doesn't sound good over 80hz, this filter creates an even larger bass hole at the 80-120hz range.
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Old 18th October 2011, 10:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Chua View Post
I find subwoofers are good for below 80Hz. I was never able to get any definition for mid-bass.
.
I agree , Dont use subs over 80/90 hz , just doesnt sound good, that is woofers territory

Last edited by lduarte1973; 18th October 2011 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 18th October 2011, 10:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Chua View Post
Yes, that's exactly my point. Subwoofers are great for Home Theater, not for music. Tried all sorts, was never really satisfied with any. The mid-bass lacks definition and attack.

Since my listening is only music, I use them to supplement my woofers below. 60-70Hz.
i do the same , just use them for low end below 80hz

Last edited by lduarte1973; 18th October 2011 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 18th October 2011, 10:52 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
"Slowness" generally has little to do with the behaviour of your woofers, aside from plain old freq curves.
I believe "slowness" is due to the nature of the subwoofer itself. Subwoofers are optimized for low frequencies (20-40Hz). That's the way they are designed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
Only deficiencies in the output of the upper-range speakers or excess of low bass leads to the perception of "slowness" (BTW, your ear can't always tell those apart).
I do agree with you on this. Subwoofers, when used for music, sound "slow" because we perceive this deficiency in mid-bass as "slow". The speed of the bass doesn't change. Our perception is influenced by the loudness, attack (transient), decay and definition in the mid-bass.
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Old 18th October 2011, 11:25 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by impuls60 View Post
My ultimate goal is to mimic the sound from a 3 way speaker and have plenty of bass from 80 to 200hz. Btw I think the large livingroom room is to blame for the lack of midbass..
Dont change your subs , i dont believe thats the solution , why dont you build a 3 way classic (with 1 or 2 woofers) and complement it with your subs ? I have that setup and im quite happy with bass , i listen mostly to classic rock and bass is that type of music has to have punch/atack , mainly 60-160hz.

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