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-   -   Line Array Woofer? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/198590-line-array-woofer.html)

Bob Richards 15th October 2011 08:03 PM

Line Array Woofer?
 
Apparently vertical line array woofers work much better with room acoustics, because of how they fill in each others cancellations on all three axis, rather than with the more conventional 2 woofers on the floor. Many high end companies have gone this route. Roger Russel, former head of speaker development at McIntosh seems to be completely sold on it (although his is wideband). I'm thinking maybe 10 five inch drivers with good Xmax per side, sealed box, electronically forced to be acoustically flat from 20HZ - 200HZ with active EQ ahead of the power amp. I also love that they have a very small footprint. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's tried this. Photos encouraged.

bigfishe 15th October 2011 08:08 PM

Sign me up! I've been thinking about this for some time

revboden 15th October 2011 08:09 PM

I've only used them in stadiums and large theaters but they do work well for semi directional bass. this is a good reference on the topic: http://www.electrovoice.com/sitefile...s%20v03%20.pdf

bentoronto 15th October 2011 09:34 PM

Hold on a moment!!!!

First question: who is trying to solve what problem with a "magic bullet" (while causing other problems using tiny drivers that might be more distressing)? What are their constraints?

Let me start by saying that, in my humble opinion, the solution to room modes is to have two very different kinds of subs parked in very different kinds of places in the room.*

Can a high-class manufacturer like Macintosh ever suggest something so outlandish while selling their beautiful pairs of matched boxes? Never. So they have to advocate a far less helpful idea like spreading the woofering around high and low, using the conventional symmetrical front positioning.

Ben

*I also recommend using mixed-bass below around 120 Hz. But that is thread for another day.

Bob Richards 16th October 2011 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentoronto (Post 2746926)
Hold on a moment!!!!

First question: who is trying to solve what problem with a "magic bullet" (while causing other problems using tiny drivers that might be more distressing)? What are their constraints?

Let me start by saying that, in my humble opinion, the solution to room modes is to have two very different kinds of subs parked in very different kinds of places in the room.*

Can a high-class manufacturer like Macintosh ever suggest something so outlandish while selling their beautiful pairs of matched boxes? Never. So they have to advocate a far less helpful idea like spreading the woofering around high and low, using the conventional symmetrical front positioning.

Ben

*I also recommend using mixed-bass below around 120 Hz. But that is thread for another day.

The problem is uneven bass in many areas of the room. The theory is that by putting out bass on all three axis, the response will be flatter in more places in the room, and therefore less boomy sounding. Does that not make sense to you? Why?

Cokewithlime 16th October 2011 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humdinger (Post 2747814)
The problem is uneven bass in many areas of the room. The theory is that by putting out bass on all three axis, the response will be flatter in more places in the room, and therefore less boomy sounding. Does that not make sense to you? Why?

Multiple subs, carefully distributed around your room and integrated level wise with the rest of your system will do more to provide a even LF listening experience that is also tight(not boomy) than any other method short of a significant investment in acoustical design/treatment via room reconstructing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humdinger (Post 2746857)
Apparently vertical line array woofers work much better with room acoustics, because of how they fill in each others cancellations on all three axis, rather than with the more conventional 2 woofers on the floor.

btw - for frequencies below 120Hz in a typical home size room LF from a line array pretty much act just the same as having a single LF driver - line arrays are not going to solve LF room modes and resonances

revboden 16th October 2011 10:12 PM

I'm gonna agree with cokewithlime, mostly. In a large room (think covered stadium) line arrays work because you are trying to "focus" the bass away from the side walls and get even coverage over a very deep area, in a home the back wall is too close and reflected energy is dominate, distributed bass is the way to go. If you are thinking of using multiple "arrays" or "stacks" the same theory of distributed bass applies you're just distributing it on three axis as opposed to two. I don't think that two arrays in symmetrical placement will solve anything, you're still going to need to put them strategically around the room.

Quackhead 16th October 2011 10:29 PM

Live Sound: Real World Gear: Developments In Cardioid Subwoofers - Pro Sound Web

A good read on y'all's delimmas of low frequency cacellations....

bentoronto 16th October 2011 10:30 PM

+2 for cokewithlime and revboden

Actually, my guess is that a line array will provide minimum benefits while at the same time obliging you to use small drivers that aren't near the floor. A poor solution.

Line arrays do have advantages but only higher up in the freq compass.

Ben

revboden 16th October 2011 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quackhead (Post 2748028)
Live Sound: Real World Gear: Developments In Cardioid Subwoofers - Pro Sound Web

A good read on y'all's delimmas of low frequency cacellations....

that's about something completely different, Cardioid arrays, which use phase cancellation to remove speaker back energy from the stage or to kill back echo, Very helpful for a venue with a "backstage-wall" some distance from the stage (100ft+) but in a home you'd just make mud.


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