No useful concrete recommendations, as the 12's I picked up CHEAP are no longer available. They were unsuitable for a small sealed box, but isobaric'd (2 clamshelled) they compared very favorably to a single driver in price and and handled a lot more power; efficiency was bad compared to the same drivers in a larger cabinet, but not so bad compared to other drivers that worked in such a small cabinet. But if you find an exeptional buy on an unsuitable driver like I did, consider isobaric to make it work. Makes a great teensie "dense-pack" box IMHO.
Yes, power yet to be decided. I will be putting in all sorts of freq compensation.
Then you shouldn't be concerned about using low Q drivers or not. The only things that counts for maximum sound pressure with a sealed enclosure is power, membran area and linear stroke range. Low Q drivers are most likely to fit into a small cabinet. Off course the driver should be able to cope with the power (linear motor/spring behaviour and low power compression)
The XXLS is a good driver and is not discontinued by Peerless. One XLSS would give you about 96dB@20Hz/45l/150W + room gain - 4pi (within linear stroke). Using a high-pass filtre at 30Hz would leave a maximum of about 103dB@30Hz/45l/200W + room gain - 4pi.
The 12" XLS is also an alternative, same maximum output (a little better impulse response) but will require a little more power.
You could also consider the Dayton TIT320C-4 that would leave you about 4dB more output than Peerless when feeding it with 500W (large signal analysis available at parts-express.com)
Also, the TC Sounds Epic 10 can deliver some 3dB more than Peerless at 20Hz/500W.
A better solution would be to use two or more smaller ones (like a long stroke 10"). That way you can more easily deal with room modes.
That said, I would rather have gone for a low tuned passive radiator solution - unless your listening room is small.
cheers,
Spot, hope you don't mind me weighing in here, but it may apply to your question as well.
I'm going to return a Viva NE 12 inch driver for exchange with another 12 inch. I've decided, after a few threads posted and many questions/answers that there are better drivers than the Vifa for sealed 12inch sub duty. I'm looking at the RSS315HF-4 but see no mention of it in this thread. I'm certain that I want a 12 inch sealed sub as well. But am wondering if the RSS315 is the way to go. Mine is for 99 percent music.
There seems to be a bit of disagreement floating about as to the RSS315's suitability for a sealed box and then I found this page....
Dr. Mark Says Speaker projects
I'm going to return a Viva NE 12 inch driver for exchange with another 12 inch. I've decided, after a few threads posted and many questions/answers that there are better drivers than the Vifa for sealed 12inch sub duty. I'm looking at the RSS315HF-4 but see no mention of it in this thread. I'm certain that I want a 12 inch sealed sub as well. But am wondering if the RSS315 is the way to go. Mine is for 99 percent music.
There seems to be a bit of disagreement floating about as to the RSS315's suitability for a sealed box and then I found this page....
Dr. Mark Says Speaker projects
So I'm asking mostly the same question here. What is the best 12 inch driver out there, in the 150 dollar range, for an approx 2cu ft sealed project?
There are many ways to design a subwoofer.
If you want to use a straight forward amp without any eq, then I (conditionally) agree with the statement. But if you have an 4-500W amp with bass boost or better a DSP controlled amp, then the RSS315HF-4 could make a great sub in a filled 2 cu ft cabinet. Unfortunately I don't have available large signal analysis of this driver. Peerless XLS is a good alternative.
Be aware that one 12" closed cabinet sub might not be enough to achieve realistic sound levels. It depends very much on your room and placement. In my living room I use 2 long stroke closed cabinet subs, corner placed and with DSP/DRC - which is far from enough for my room.
No I am not a head banger and I am not a bass fanatic
For the time being my needs are similar to Spots. The plate amp I have on hand is a Foster 100w sub amp from the NHT sellout page. I'll live with it for a while and upgrade to a 500 w bash amp later. The existing oak cabinet I'm using has 4.2 cu ft available at present. So I can make it anything from .5 to 4.2 cu ft. I'd like to go sealed. In this case, and similar to what Spot is asking, if focusing on the Dayton offerings, which would be optimal for a small(ish) sealed box..... the 12 inch HO, the 12 inch HF, or the 12 Titanic? 98 percent music at moderate levels.
I don't know anything of the amp you are reffering to, but if it is the WF-100k then you have the option of tuning a bass boost function by changing some internal components (see the Excel sheet and FAQ on http://home.comcast.net/~jhidley/). You said 100W? the WF-100K can deliver 220W/8ohm 1%THD, so I feel I have missed on the amp type here
Can you confirm?If the sub amp is the limit it would be relevant to know the output power of your main amp and the main speaker sensitivity. No point in recommending a sub that looses the main speakers half way.
Another thing... with 4,5 cu. ft. available - why don't you want a driver (i.e. 15") that fully utlizes this volume - you could sell the complete package when you want to upgrade
At 4,5 cu. ft. you can get a more efficient sub.
plug this one in....I know it is a car sub.....but they are tough as nails and sound amazing....and less than 100 bucks ea.
http://www.powerbassusa.com/l-124d-12-subwoofer
http://www.powerbassusa.com/l-124d-12-subwoofer
Rev, I've yet to get acquainted with software modeling (in fact I'm going to start looking into it tonight... loooong past due). Can you interpret those graphs for me a little?
I have two of these from the NHT sale. It's the WF-100K. From the description below it appears as if the 220w figure is for two bridged. This is from http://home.comcast.net/~jhidley/ about half way down the page. I looked into the directions for this and don't feel it's worth the bother. It's not a clean bridge since the function knobs of the bridged amp are not defeated and must be synced with the other amp. I do like the idea of being able to "tune" the amp, but will probably just leave it as is until I can afford a more powerful/flexible plate amp. I'll just run whatever sealed box I come up with with one of these.
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I have two of these from the NHT sale. It's the WF-100K. From the description below it appears as if the 220w figure is for two bridged. I looked into the directions for this and don't feel it's worth the bother. It's not a clean bridge since the function knobs of the bridged amp are not defeated and must be synced with the other amp. I do like the idea of being able to "tune" the amp, but will probably just leave it as is until I can afford a more powerful/flexible plate amp. I'll just run whatever sealed box I come up with with one of these.
I'll try... They are a general comparison of the three drivers in sealed boxes that yield a Qtc of ~.57, that is a box volume that is critically damped (read this: Q factor and damping Q factor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )
The first chart (on the left) tells you how much power you can use in this alignment with each driver to reach Xmax.
The second chart shows SPL at Xmax or maximum output for each frequency.
The third is Transfer Function, which shows each drivers efficiency at producing sound at each frequency relative to the other drivers. It's much like the SPL chart in shape but has -3db lines on the graph.
any other questions, feel free to ask.
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Oh... I see that.
I will repeat that the sealed cabinet is a very inefficient solution and therefore requires massive amount of power to deliver high sound pressures. In addition, when designing subs it is recommended to include a 6-10dB headroom within the drivers linear stroke.
Then you will see that with a 110W@4ohm amp the maximum (design) mean sound pressure is very limited unless you make a more efficient design than a sealed cabinet.
My recommendation to you would be to buy a Peerless XXLS or maybe a Eminence LAB12 and use it in your 4,5 cu.ft. cabinet as BR. Tune the port to 20Hz (Ø12x610mm). With regards to impulse response and group delay this would leave you a system that fully competes with the qalities of a sealed cabinet. The 4ohm version should be pretty versatile for your wishes of using a sealed cabinet. You could then later, when money allows for it, rebuild the sub to a sealed enclosure with a more powerfull amp.
Here are a few maximum output figures when feeding the XXLS with 110W (you should subtract 6dB for baffle step diffraction and add room gain to the dB numbers below):
frq______BR (120litre), Sealed (45litre)
20Hz____ 103,9______ 95,5
25Hz____ 105,8______ 98,1
30Hz____ 106,2______ 100,5
35Hz____ 106,4______ 102,4
40Hz____ 107,1______ 103,7
50Hz____ 107,1______ 105,4
100Hz___ 107,7______ 107,7
In both cases the driver moves within linear stroke range down to 20Hz.
Port resonance at 250Hz.
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The XXLS is 247 dollars.
Every time I reshuffle the deck to include a more expensive driver I do the math and look at the Rythmikaudio servo kit with DS1200 black cone sealed 2 cu ft with A370PEQ servo amp for 560 bucks and start thinking again.
Or even the Creative Sound - Product Details
12 inch kit with Bash 300 amp for 379 dollars.
I don't know.. with the RSS drivers available for one hundred dollars less than the XXLS, what gives the XXLS the edge over the RSS 12 HF or HO?
Dammitall.. I wish this doubt was never sown concerning the HSS 12 HF's possibility for cone distortion/noise at high pressure. It didn't do much to help my analysis paralysis.
Every time I reshuffle the deck to include a more expensive driver I do the math and look at the Rythmikaudio servo kit with DS1200 black cone sealed 2 cu ft with A370PEQ servo amp for 560 bucks and start thinking again.
Or even the Creative Sound - Product Details
12 inch kit with Bash 300 amp for 379 dollars.
I don't know.. with the RSS drivers available for one hundred dollars less than the XXLS, what gives the XXLS the edge over the RSS 12 HF or HO?
Dammitall.. I wish this doubt was never sown concerning the HSS 12 HF's possibility for cone distortion/noise at high pressure. It didn't do much to help my analysis paralysis.
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