Hello fellow builders,
I have a 2 Fane Classic 18/125's (Fane CLASSIC18/125) that i got from a market for £15 and would really like to use them as i dont have the money for more xpensive subs, but do have the materials.
I have decided to build a three way system to get me started, also including some H&H 1200E's from some old H&H cabinets i also got cheap.
Im currently trying to use hornresp to design some horns for the mid range, but im sure i need to work a little more on it as i can only seem to get a response between say 250hz and 800hz for a tractix design on the 1200's. Tops i havent decided on yet.
Now my main question is about the Fane single 18" folded horn design from the Fane Loudspeaker Book (http://www.4fsc.co.uk/blue-room/Fane Loudspeaker Book, pages 34-41.pdf). I have read a lot about horns an well even when i build 2 Im not gonna get the low ends i would like. This is just inherent in horns of such a small size. I would like these to cover the whole bottom end until i get money for better speakers.
Ive been reading about Hybrids, and wondered that if i extend the lower part of the cabinet by ~43cm (keeping the existing dimensions and extruding downwards) this should give a rear chamber size of ~328 L for the sub, which according to Win ISD is adequate to give a relitively flat response with a cut off of 38hz. This will be ported with three 11cm diameter ports of 9.7cm length.
Will this design work to achieve a good coverage horn with extended low end......or am i missing something vital ??? i.e i dont think it is a 4th order because there is no sealed chamber and it could be a 6th but has no front chamber......? Maybe just a horn loaded vented enclosure ?
Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated as i am really up for building some cabinets that will cater for what i need until i get some revenue in from the system for better designs and components.
P.S any ideas what i can do for the 1200's other than a mid horn as hopefully the 18 cabinet will cover up to ~250-300hz and im looking to go three way as i said.
Thanks for reading i know its long
I have a 2 Fane Classic 18/125's (Fane CLASSIC18/125) that i got from a market for £15 and would really like to use them as i dont have the money for more xpensive subs, but do have the materials.
I have decided to build a three way system to get me started, also including some H&H 1200E's from some old H&H cabinets i also got cheap.
Im currently trying to use hornresp to design some horns for the mid range, but im sure i need to work a little more on it as i can only seem to get a response between say 250hz and 800hz for a tractix design on the 1200's. Tops i havent decided on yet.
Now my main question is about the Fane single 18" folded horn design from the Fane Loudspeaker Book (http://www.4fsc.co.uk/blue-room/Fane Loudspeaker Book, pages 34-41.pdf). I have read a lot about horns an well even when i build 2 Im not gonna get the low ends i would like. This is just inherent in horns of such a small size. I would like these to cover the whole bottom end until i get money for better speakers.
Ive been reading about Hybrids, and wondered that if i extend the lower part of the cabinet by ~43cm (keeping the existing dimensions and extruding downwards) this should give a rear chamber size of ~328 L for the sub, which according to Win ISD is adequate to give a relitively flat response with a cut off of 38hz. This will be ported with three 11cm diameter ports of 9.7cm length.
Will this design work to achieve a good coverage horn with extended low end......or am i missing something vital ??? i.e i dont think it is a 4th order because there is no sealed chamber and it could be a 6th but has no front chamber......? Maybe just a horn loaded vented enclosure ?
Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated as i am really up for building some cabinets that will cater for what i need until i get some revenue in from the system for better designs and components.
P.S any ideas what i can do for the 1200's other than a mid horn as hopefully the 18 cabinet will cover up to ~250-300hz and im looking to go three way as i said.
Thanks for reading i know its long
hi sketchyphish.
the horn you refering to is a bit outdated.
even the fr graph shown is a bit optimistic.
+ its over 2 sheets of ply.
why not try on a tapped horn
it seems this driver wil work nicely in a tapped horn.
altough i'm doubtful on these given ts parameters.
do you have a pic of it?
tapped horn
tapped horn
the horn you refering to is a bit outdated.
even the fr graph shown is a bit optimistic.
+ its over 2 sheets of ply.
why not try on a tapped horn
it seems this driver wil work nicely in a tapped horn.
altough i'm doubtful on these given ts parameters.
do you have a pic of it?
tapped horn
tapped horn
Horn's so much fun
Ive got some pics but dont know how to attach them from my hdd seems only a url will do...... I know these cabs are old but i was looking for something that would match the drivers. Its only because of the low efficiency of ported enclosures that i havent gone with the designs ive made in Win ISD. Horn's seem to through further and give a higher efficiency, based on the fact that these are low wattage drivers i want to get the most out of them.
Im not looking for KW's of power as i am basically designing a lower powered rig to run from renewable sources so if i can get the whole lot to be about say 1k then great, but i do want the most output for the power.
I dont really understand the principle of Tapped horns and therefore wouldnt know where to start with designing one, i thought if i use a cabinet designed for this driver and then extend and port the rear chamber, then i can achieve a lower bottom end than the cabinet allows for on its own.
I did design a 6th BP box before which worked quite well, but upon renting it out the speaker came back damaged (very rough sounding) so i ditched it. I had heard that the unequal loading of the driver in this condition could cause damage to cones that are not quite up for the job.
Again any help on this would be great im up for any suggestions to achieve what i need.
Ive got some pics but dont know how to attach them from my hdd seems only a url will do...... I know these cabs are old but i was looking for something that would match the drivers. Its only because of the low efficiency of ported enclosures that i havent gone with the designs ive made in Win ISD. Horn's seem to through further and give a higher efficiency, based on the fact that these are low wattage drivers i want to get the most out of them.
Im not looking for KW's of power as i am basically designing a lower powered rig to run from renewable sources so if i can get the whole lot to be about say 1k then great, but i do want the most output for the power.
I dont really understand the principle of Tapped horns and therefore wouldnt know where to start with designing one, i thought if i use a cabinet designed for this driver and then extend and port the rear chamber, then i can achieve a lower bottom end than the cabinet allows for on its own.
I did design a 6th BP box before which worked quite well, but upon renting it out the speaker came back damaged (very rough sounding) so i ditched it. I had heard that the unequal loading of the driver in this condition could cause damage to cones that are not quite up for the job.
Again any help on this would be great im up for any suggestions to achieve what i need.
a tapped horn has some advantige .the rear wave of the speaker is used.
this could give a max of 6db over a basreflex(in ideal situation)but a bigger cab.tough smaller than a flh.
especialy when used in singles the th is a winner.
for example i have symed your speaker in the bottem link in post 2.
the whole plan is in that toppic, its 1 sheet 5'*10' + a few extra bits.
if you want to try that i can assist you,if u want.
btw those peaks @160 and 240 hz are non existend in real live.
now to be clear
witch way where you going to extend?
i can sym it for you,then you can decide.
this could give a max of 6db over a basreflex(in ideal situation)but a bigger cab.tough smaller than a flh.
especialy when used in singles the th is a winner.
for example i have symed your speaker in the bottem link in post 2.
the whole plan is in that toppic, its 1 sheet 5'*10' + a few extra bits.
if you want to try that i can assist you,if u want.
btw those peaks @160 and 240 hz are non existend in real live.
now to be clear
witch way where you going to extend?
i can sym it for you,then you can decide.
Last edited:
Extension
Well thanks for the info, of course i would be interested in you helping me with this cabinet. As for your last question i would be extending the cabinet in the direction of the red area, as to increase the rear chamber of the sub to about 328L.
I could get a copy of cad software but of course this is going to take a while to get used to, and well actually taking figures from hornresp and using tham again is another challenge.
I understand the principle of a tapped horn is by the time the waveform reaches the mouth the rear of the driver will be producing the second half of the wave and therefore add to it producing more db. anyways if im wrong im sure i can read more.
To understand i will be using the cabinets as either a stereo system either side of the crowd, or of course my favourite, stacked centrally. Dont know if this will help the horn loading to go lower if stacked, but depends on the gig and the type of music wheteher they want a clear stereo/bineural separation or not.
The only other problem with using existing cabinets is the tuning of the cabinet to the driver for maximum effect. Has anyone looked at the golden ration/fibonacci sequence for horns ? this being another project i hope to get on with, kinda snail shell bass bins (massive i know but i will build them one day) scratch that lets just stick to the point.
Thanks again.
Well thanks for the info, of course i would be interested in you helping me with this cabinet. As for your last question i would be extending the cabinet in the direction of the red area, as to increase the rear chamber of the sub to about 328L.
I could get a copy of cad software but of course this is going to take a while to get used to, and well actually taking figures from hornresp and using tham again is another challenge.
I understand the principle of a tapped horn is by the time the waveform reaches the mouth the rear of the driver will be producing the second half of the wave and therefore add to it producing more db. anyways if im wrong im sure i can read more.
To understand i will be using the cabinets as either a stereo system either side of the crowd, or of course my favourite, stacked centrally. Dont know if this will help the horn loading to go lower if stacked, but depends on the gig and the type of music wheteher they want a clear stereo/bineural separation or not.
The only other problem with using existing cabinets is the tuning of the cabinet to the driver for maximum effect. Has anyone looked at the golden ration/fibonacci sequence for horns ? this being another project i hope to get on with, kinda snail shell bass bins (massive i know but i will build them one day) scratch that lets just stick to the point.
Thanks again.
FYI,
IMO,Any TH-sub that works with a low compression-ratio(<2:1) is suitable for to be stuffed with damping material to achieve superior SQ in comparison if not.
I found this driver qualifying for this approach if single folded(+cross-bracings)only and stuffed(max 0.25lb/ft^3=~4kg/m^3) to max a third of the line counted from the throat S1 area.
b
IMO,Any TH-sub that works with a low compression-ratio(<2:1) is suitable for to be stuffed with damping material to achieve superior SQ in comparison if not.
I found this driver qualifying for this approach if single folded(+cross-bracings)only and stuffed(max 0.25lb/ft^3=~4kg/m^3) to max a third of the line counted from the throat S1 area.
b
Attachments
Hi epa,
I guess it's valid for multifolded TH:s if used below ~80 Hz. Above 100 Hz many folds and stuffing would attenuate th FR too much in the upper passband in a unpredictable way but that really depends if the first fold is close to the throat or if at least a meter apart: Concerning the latter fold type, I think it would be of a minor issue.
b
I guess it's valid for multifolded TH:s if used below ~80 Hz. Above 100 Hz many folds and stuffing would attenuate th FR too much in the upper passband in a unpredictable way but that really depends if the first fold is close to the throat or if at least a meter apart: Concerning the latter fold type, I think it would be of a minor issue.
b
Thank you jogi59 for posting the correct label for 9.1 mm excursion data,
I wasn't sure sure so I simulated the given data-sheet a 1Hz as a precaution
b
.
So what next ?
Well ive taken into account the statements so far and well i would like wait for the sim of the extended fane box and see what comes back. Either way im gonna have to get some design plans as well i am new to HR so would probably take me a while to work out how to design the cab from the details.
Seems wood is very expensive here in austria too, which is weird for a coutry which deals a lot in wood...... so basically i would like to achieve lets say an average 120db for the least wood input. of course and solid suggestions on what design to go for on this driver would be helpfull.
Well ive taken into account the statements so far and well i would like wait for the sim of the extended fane box and see what comes back. Either way im gonna have to get some design plans as well i am new to HR so would probably take me a while to work out how to design the cab from the details.
Seems wood is very expensive here in austria too, which is weird for a coutry which deals a lot in wood...... so basically i would like to achieve lets say an average 120db for the least wood input. of course and solid suggestions on what design to go for on this driver would be helpfull.
Another box
as i like them i wondered if i could modify this plan to include a larger chamber for lower response
MHB-4818
would be lovely to used a couple
any idea's please comment as im nearing a start time for this build and well would like to get a box design sorted, now isnt the time to learn how to expoert HR into CAD.
as i like them i wondered if i could modify this plan to include a larger chamber for lower response
MHB-4818
would be lovely to used a couple
any idea's please comment as im nearing a start time for this build and well would like to get a box design sorted, now isnt the time to learn how to expoert HR into CAD.
maybe you overlooked post 7 ?
its pretty close ,but a 700 ltr cab is big.
if you want to use little wood as posible,then i sugest you make this tapped horn.
its an easy bild and uses aprox 1 sheet of 5'*10'(153cm*305cm)per cab.
saw plan is here
its probaply even flatter due to increased le vallue at lower freq.
oh and its 550 ltr
Its ON
Sorry, i didnt realise we had come to a conclusion, i had looked at the post but couldnt find any plans for it, pressumed it was a suggestion for a design like that.
Anyhows got all the details now, what was that about size difference due to wood ?
all good though, just got to find someone in austria that can do me wood for less than 35 euro per square meter....
Cheers again
oh any ideas on mids usin the H&H's, im thinking of using the PHI ration to design a short horn.....
Peace
Sorry, i didnt realise we had come to a conclusion, i had looked at the post but couldnt find any plans for it, pressumed it was a suggestion for a design like that.
Anyhows got all the details now, what was that about size difference due to wood ?
all good though, just got to find someone in austria that can do me wood for less than 35 euro per square meter....
Cheers again
oh any ideas on mids usin the H&H's, im thinking of using the PHI ration to design a short horn.....
Peace
fyi. if you bild the fane box with extended chamber i think you need 2 1/2 sheets of 122*244.(guestimate)
for the th you need 1 sheet 153*305 +a piece of 60*60.
so less wood=lighter and also smaller=more transpostable=imo more senseble.
as for the mids ,i had a breef look in to phi thing ,but i don't realy now how to covert it to a usable horn.
i designed a mid for olsound("top for tap" topic) you can have a look there.(klick my nick> find other posts)
for the th you need 1 sheet 153*305 +a piece of 60*60.
so less wood=lighter and also smaller=more transpostable=imo more senseble.
as for the mids ,i had a breef look in to phi thing ,but i don't realy now how to covert it to a usable horn.
i designed a mid for olsound("top for tap" topic) you can have a look there.(klick my nick> find other posts)
So basically im gonna read the top for tat post, but fot the phi idea look at the top example on this page Geometry and Geometric Constructions related to Phi, the Golden Ratio. It shows a line divided by another line etc, this to me looks like it could be good to mirror it horizontally and well you get a horn flare. Like i said ive got to look into the details myself but to use the golden number in horn design would be great, give it a look and let me know what you think.
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