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Old 19th July 2011, 12:29 PM   #1
blo06 is offline blo06  France
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Default Tapped Horn in Hornresp

Hi,

after browsing a bit and playing with HornResp, I'm going to design my first Tapped Horn.

The ideas come from :
Tapped Horns
and
Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp
Exodus Anarchy 6.5" 25hz by LilMike
Littlemike's Shiva Tapped Horn

Thx to them !

The speaker(s) would be Monacor Carpower Raptor-6, because I have them. and I want to have something small.

Technical data:
Impedance (Z) : 4 Ohm
Resonant frequency (fs) : 53Hz
Max. frequency range : f3-800Hz
Music power : 300WMAX
Power rating (P) : 100WRMS
SPL (1W/1m) : 88dB
Suspension compl. (Cms) : 0.38mm/N
Moving mass (Mms) : 23g
Mech. Q factor (Qms) : 2.2
Electr. Q factor (Qes) : 0.43
Total Q factor (Qts) : 0.36
Equivalent volume (Vas) : 6.9 l
DC resistance (Re) : 3.4 Ohm
Force factor (BxL) : 7.6 Tm
Voice coil induct. (Le) : 0.6mH
Voice coil diameter : 25mm
Voice coil former : Kapton
Linear excursion (XMAX) : 9mm
Eff. cone area (Sd) : 113cm2
Magnet weight : 850g
Weight : 2.4kg

After playing a bit, it appears that 2 speakers in // will be better than one (not a big surprise).

How to put them ? side by side or one up the other ? I favor the 2bd way because of the footprint but know if it's possible...

I will post some capture of the HR job.

And the bad question : is it a good or a bad idea trying to design for this speaker ?

Regards.
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Old 19th July 2011, 12:42 PM   #2
blo06 is offline blo06  France
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In fact it could be better to make 2 with one speaker than 1 box with 2 spk...

I've used those spk in my cars and they can go low. I think it's something about the Xmax.

Any suggestion about the box welcome !

Regards.
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Old 19th July 2011, 02:06 PM   #3
bjorno is offline bjorno  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blo06 View Post
...Any suggestion about the box welcome !..
Any?Fold this one and listen to the harmonics when the excursion peaking:

b
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Monacor Carpower Raptor-6.JPG (356.1 KB, 355 views)
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Old 19th July 2011, 02:25 PM   #4
blo06 is offline blo06  France
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Hi bjorno,

I have a proposition too tell me what you think of it !

What do you mean when writing "listen to the harmonics when the excursion peaking" ?

I'd like to use it up to 100-120 Hz.

Regards.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HR R6 freq.jpg (107.2 KB, 334 views)
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Old 19th July 2011, 02:42 PM   #5
blo06 is offline blo06  France
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a question:
in specs :
Linear excursion (XMAX) : 9mm

In HR, should Linear displacement remain under 9 or 18mm ?

????
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Old 19th July 2011, 02:48 PM   #6
blo06 is offline blo06  France
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another one, less SPL, lower.

Which one do you prefer ?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HR R6 2.jpg (64.8 KB, 317 views)
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Old 19th July 2011, 08:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blo06 View Post
another one, less SPL, lower.

Which one do you prefer ?
The louder one for old rock and blues, the lower one for anything that goes low.
Around 35 Hz is a good compromise for sensitivity and decent low end for most music other than pipe organ stuff, which goes as low as 16 Hz, an octave lower than the low B string on a five string bass.

Other answers: Xmax is one way, a 9mm linear displacement should remain under 9mm in Hornresp.

When you measure the speaker's excursion, an 18mm peak to peak movement indicates it is at a 9mm Xmax.

Side by side mounting of the speakers allows them to be mounted closer to the mouth, usually a good thing for TH.

Many actual builds show that full center bracing (the equivalent of two separate cabinets) reduces LF output.
Separate, half size cabinets may have less output than one properly braced large cabinet.
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Old 20th July 2011, 02:25 PM   #8
blo06 is offline blo06  France
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Hi,

I've tried to draw the box and it's a problem : the speaker is too big to fit in the cabinet.
The spk is 15cm long by 18cm diam.
And the section S3 is 60cm^2
S3 must be at least 16 x 19 = 304cm^2.

Obviously the spk must be in the box...

So I did another sim.
Look at it and tell me if

Regards.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HR R6 3.jpg (67.8 KB, 275 views)
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Old 20th July 2011, 05:31 PM   #9
bjorno is offline bjorno  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blo06 View Post
..Obviously the spk must be in the box...
Hi,

Agree,You may find my late opinions here-below:

I post # 3 I wrote: 'What do you mean when writing "listen to the harmonics when the excursion peaking"'should be:...when the excursion is peaking.... but I was to late to edit before the forum time out and missed to clarify my statement.

I think this driver belong in a car based on the ' eye-candy' looks and I would never recommend any one to buy this (or similar lookalike drivers) due to the T/S for a first driver choice to put in a TH.

Further on I do not recommend TH's to be used in home environments for Music/HT reproduction because I argue:

If any sub(driver)have to use an EQ for the inherent FR, it's flawed. OTOH an EQ could be handy sometimes to tame the in room response ,but that's a complete different SQ matter.

When you wrote you would like to put your car drivers into a TH: I tested(simulated) the Monacor Carpower Raptor-6 driver in an OD-TL enclosure I think is a far better use if a blameless sub is too the target.

Look at the first picture where the OD-TL is compared to a TH and you may draw the same conclusion that I did and hence my previous unclear statement you needed to be clarified.

When EQ:ing the TH for flat response suitable for reproduction You must waste a lot of power using extra equipment and if you are successful, could only end up with a similar response like the OD-TL but not better( a few dB difference though), i.e. the latter have a much flatter FR and a wider BW.

Both of your suggestions in post# (4-5) could work well at lower SPL's despite the rather high compression ratios at the throat and mouth, but only if you can accommodate the driver to fit properly in a folded cabinet without changing the the 'airways' definition in your simulations.

The main problem here is the volume occupied by the driver and the need for voice-coil ventilation clearance of at least 2 cm.
Take a look at lower right corner in the second op pictures where a simple estimation of a recommended minimum CSA is worked out that I find is quite sufficient.

A more practical suggestion of the TH's 'airway' definition is shown in the third of the submitted pictures where the CSA problem is circumvented.

Here the section length = L45 should optionally be 'slided' between ~9 to 40 cm to suit a folding that is workable.

This design relies on a use of LR4 LP filter that when inserted will push the upper frequency bound to ~110 Hz. The remaining peak at ~146 Hz can be cured by applying of a small amount of damping(volume filling) material at driver throat end and/or by use of an EQ.

b
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1-Monacor Carpower Raptor-6_OD-TL.JPG (237.5 KB, 266 views)
File Type: jpg 2-monacor_raptor6.jpg (178.2 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpg 3-Monacor Carpower Raptor-6_TH.JPG (654.9 KB, 93 views)
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Old 20th July 2011, 07:05 PM   #10
blo06 is offline blo06  France
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Hi bjorno,

this time again your help is +++ !

So if understand well, and to make it short, I got a bad idea !
In fact I knew this was not going to be easy but I wanted to be sure and it always good to learn.

Well the good option is to cancel this project, not to late because just some time spend before the screen.

For the next one, I will run the sims before buying the spk.

Thanks again to all !
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