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Old 13th March 2013, 10:10 PM   #1241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post
Powersoft

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The Powersoft K 20 spec lists 225 volt peak.
That does not seem to jive with the 18,000 watt rating at 4 ohms bridged.

What was the amplifier and test conditions and how did you verify >350v?
Was it an 8 or 4 ohm BC18SW115?
Any SPL reports?


EDIT:

Oh, now I understand, you are talking about the Powersoft IPAL.
It still only does 200V, 8000 watt peak, and has all sorts of tricky stuff to limit excursion.
"The feedback control of this system is based on a differential pressure control sensor. The entire system control is performed by a “Zero Latency DSP” application, specifically designed for this purpose in order to be able to process the system with real time performances.

The Differential Pressure Measurement, senses the difference of pressure between the front and the rear side of the radiating diaphragm due to the acoustic load, and uses this information to alter the behavior of the reference model, therefore according to the real boundary conditions."


Ben Toronto would be interested, it's better than ACE Bass...

At any rate kids, do not attempt to put 360 volts in to a BC18SW115-4 unless you are looking for a light show.

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Last edited by weltersys; 13th March 2013 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 13th March 2013, 10:57 PM   #1242
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Hi,
I believe the 225v is the highest setting for the voltage limiters of each channel. IIRC those limiters are not hard as the amp still has more in reserve for dynamics.

I think the whole power paradigm is greatly misunderstood IMO, the really nice/informative thing about powersoft is the real time monitoring of actual power dissipated by the load.

I measured the supply with the meter but I didn't take the time to hook up the outputs to a scope. The DSP allows the display of stuff in real time on the PC.
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Old 13th March 2013, 11:13 PM   #1243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post
Hi,
I believe the 225v is the highest setting for the voltage limiters of each channel. IIRC those limiters are not hard as the amp still has more in reserve for dynamics.

I think the whole power paradigm is greatly misunderstood IMO, the really nice/informative thing about powersoft is the real time monitoring of actual power dissipated by the load.

I measured the supply with the meter but I didn't take the time to hook up the outputs to a scope. The DSP allows the display of stuff in real time on the PC.
Dan,

What amp are you writing about now?
The IPAL is mono.
It would help to identify the full model number to avoid confusion, Powersoft makes loads of different amps.

Although the IPAL output voltage is capable of 390 volts it is current limited to 8000 watts. All the Powersoft amps use current limiting.

The current limiting is why the IPAL can work with speakers with RE of only .74 ohms.

The BMS IPAL woofers look like the 18SW and 21SW, but the specs are quite different.

If one had the money to buy the IPAL, a bit more linear output could be squeezed from any speaker.
I imagine the IPAL will result in many poor enclosure designs that can be "saved" .
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File Type: png With & Without.png (338.8 KB, 479 views)

Last edited by weltersys; 13th March 2013 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 14th March 2013, 02:51 AM   #1244
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Correct...The k20 is 225v and 125A peak per channel (k10 is 200v and 125A) obviously these cannot be sustained on a long term basis but if you bridge the amps with shorter term signals crazy things are possible.

The IPAL module is capable of 390v peak and 240A short term if my memory is working. I might be a bit off on those so don't quote me exactly but regardless it has substantial reserves. The peak ratings appear to be in line with a bridged k10 but I suspect that the long term power output and protection circuits are governed a little more tightly due to the huge current demands of 1 ohm minimum loads.

I have had quite a few woofers go to Valhalla via the K10's when "finding" the limits both from mechanical failure and from melting or burning up.
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Old 14th March 2013, 02:52 AM   #1245
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Also. The IPAL woofs are way beyond the already really good SW drivers.
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Old 14th March 2013, 08:53 AM   #1246
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You guys and your (my wish-list) amplifiers...
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Old 14th March 2013, 09:27 AM   #1247
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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the K-20 is 225 volts peaks,and pkn controls s phase40 k 256 volts 2 x 20000 watts
the powersoft ipal module is 390volts but does is at verry low impedance eg <1ohm
edit/oops ,a lot of reply's last hour.
the intresting bit about the ipal amp is the virtual speakermode,it basicly lets you change the driver ts to the desired ts parameters.
martin has a dual 18" ipal horn.
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Last edited by epa; 14th March 2013 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 14th March 2013, 10:06 AM   #1248
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Hi epa,
Wow what a beast, looks like ~500v p-p bridged. Never heard of them before. PKN Controls
The only thing, and it looks like a stopper for those of us in the US, the AC requirements, single phase 230v 63A or 3 phase 3x400v @25A. We have 600A 3 phase here at the shop but good luck finding that elsewhere.

Code:
Parameter	PKN 3PHASE-40K	PKN 3PHASE-20K
Channel number	4 input/ 4 output	2 input/ 2 output
Output Power 8 Ohms	4 x 4000W	2 x 4000W
Output Power 4 Ohms	4 x 7500W	2 x 7500W
Output Power 2.6 Ohms	4 x 10000W	2 x 10000W
Bridged Output Power 8 Ohms	2 x 8000W	1 x 8000W
Bridged Output Power 4 Ohms	2 x 15000W	1 x 15000W
Bridged Output Power 2.6 Ohms	2 x 20000W	1 x 20000W
Peak Output Voltage per Channel	256V (181Vrms)
Peak Output Current per Channel	130A
Power Supply
Dual, Two independent High Frequency Resonant Switching with active Power Factor Correction 
Typical Power Factor
>0.92 above 2000W
AC Power input in Three Phase mode
3x 400V (25A**) no Neutral connection needed
AC Power input in Single Phase mode	230V (63A**)
Operational AC Voltage range in Three Phase mode
3X 208V- 3X480V 45...65Hz Still operational in case of single phase loss
Operational AC Voltage range in Single Phase mode	90V- 275V** 45...65Hz 400Vac proof in single-phase mode
Maximum AC line current draw in Three Phase mode
3X 32A (Separated AC Power limiter for AB and CD Channels)
3 x 16A
Maximum AC line current draw in Single Phase mode	80A	40A
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Old 14th March 2013, 10:22 AM   #1249
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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i do beleave they operate an 3x 110 volts too.
i stil have to stresstest my powersoft digimod amp module,but it looks verry promesing.
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Old 14th March 2013, 01:53 PM   #1250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post
Hi epa,
Wow what a beast, looks like ~500v p-p bridged. Never heard of them before. PKN Controls
The only thing, and it looks like a stopper for those of us in the US, the AC requirements, single phase 230v 63A or 3 phase 3x400v @25A. We have 600A 3 phase here at the shop but good luck finding that elsewhere.

Code:
Parameter	PKN 3PHASE-40K	PKN 3PHASE-20K
Channel number	4 input/ 4 output	2 input/ 2 output
Output Power 8 Ohms	4 x 4000W	2 x 4000W
Output Power 4 Ohms	4 x 7500W	2 x 7500W
Output Power 2.6 Ohms	4 x 10000W	2 x 10000W
Bridged Output Power 8 Ohms	2 x 8000W	1 x 8000W
Bridged Output Power 4 Ohms	2 x 15000W	1 x 15000W
Bridged Output Power 2.6 Ohms	2 x 20000W	1 x 20000W
Peak Output Voltage per Channel	256V (181Vrms)
Peak Output Current per Channel	130A
Power Supply
Dual, Two independent High Frequency Resonant Switching with active Power Factor Correction 
Typical Power Factor
>0.92 above 2000W
AC Power input in Three Phase mode
3x 400V (25A**) no Neutral connection needed
AC Power input in Single Phase mode	230V (63A**)
Operational AC Voltage range in Three Phase mode
3X 208V- 3X480V 45...65Hz Still operational in case of single phase loss
Operational AC Voltage range in Single Phase mode	90V- 275V** 45...65Hz 400Vac proof in single-phase mode
Maximum AC line current draw in Three Phase mode
3X 32A (Separated AC Power limiter for AB and CD Channels)
3 x 16A
Maximum AC line current draw in Single Phase mode	80A	40A
Maybe larger touring shows have their own three phase generators....
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