The Syntripp is close to 900mm wide, so it will overhang the TH-18, and it doesn't look like a PA horn to me, more like a HIFi horn. The HS-12 is a better width, but it's still not going to get the horn above people ears on the dance floor.
The TH-18 is about 100cm tall, and the SMT-212 is about the same, so the horn is up around 1.9m off the floor already. Just be careful what components you choose for the SMT-212, it can get top heavy.
My sims with the HS12 and lowly PA310 hit 130db. If you want louder I'd say DJK's manta ray or maybe he finished his new midhorn design. Some good ideas in this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/270968-pa-mid-horn-ideas-help.html
Zivcof's tops look like they would scream but I cant get him to budge on plans or info.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/270968-pa-mid-horn-ideas-help.html
Zivcof's tops look like they would scream but I cant get him to budge on plans or info.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/270968-pa-mid-horn-ideas-help.html
Also 18sound do a 2way full range kit which you can buy from them or make yourself, the 12" version should be enough to sit on top of a TH-18. They have a 15" version too, but it's probably overkill.
http://www.eighteensound.com/Portals/0/EnclosuresKits/18sound_12%202ways.pdf
You really need a full range to go with the TH-18 as it's a sub, a mid/high like the Danley SM80 will force you to cross the TH-18 way too high.
http://www.eighteensound.com/Portals/0/EnclosuresKits/18sound_12%202ways.pdf
You really need a full range to go with the TH-18 as it's a sub, a mid/high like the Danley SM80 will force you to cross the TH-18 way too high.
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There are many guys on the prosoundwebforum running the SM80/TH-118 combo that don't seem to have an issue. I think they low pass the sub at 120hz and use the natural 12dB/oct roll off of the SM80.
hi
yes we built cubo kicks (with 18sound 15 d930 as suggested) and mt 121 (almost ROG original with double flare, not the simpler single flared TDA mt121 that were posted in the last pages) to go with b&c 18 sw115 th18s.
This sounds very good but mt 121 are big and heavy and the horns not so easy to build, and are cabs with a not so wide dispersion, medium long throw and lot of spl.
We play bass heavy reggae, but they are outrunning my th18s fed with 2 kw continuos each and i feel i'm gonna double the subs before adding another mt.
we wanted it that way, to cover outside events and have a lot of headroom and keep distortion down, but if you are committed to medium small events and are not looking forward to make it a bigger system i would look at smaller and lighter alternatives that would give plenty spl.
mt121 is 60 degrees dispersion average, so in many venues works better in couples to cover 90 degrees, this is something to consider, if you are going to stay with only two tops maybe 90x40 degrees would be more useful?
i like narrow dispersion to control reflections but outside it gets quite directional.
and here comes the kick... shouldn't this be king of tekno? most reports say th18s doesn't sound as sweet above 90-100 so you need a kick or a top to go down at least to 120. mt121 stops ay 170 180...
I suggest you look at ported designs to get low keeping it small, try to keep it at a size and wheigt you can pole mount it and bring the hf above heads. use neo drivers if possible. look at chris661 system thread in PA forum.
Or look at various 2x12 2x10 . 2x15 lots of kick but to big?
if that's not loud enough you may want to go four way and add a kick, take a look at the cubo kick we built, there's also a 12 inch version that goes to 250 hz. that with a 12 or ten inch reflex and a 1 cd on a 90 horn, and the cubo kick works well even in singles.
we have taken some measurements and set crossovers and delays - that were similar to the 5,8 ms at 80hz calculated here
. having it in phase with the kick is a joy, we still didn't add any eq to the subs, they sound sweet. we hi pass at 28 hz bw24 for low power and used 35 hz w24 for protection at hi power. gonna lower that to 32 bw 24 with some time and confidence
we took it in the city for a ride
pressure at chest height was insane with subs at that height, even meters away.
sound was always round, physical an well defined, musical.
we hit them with full 2.1 kw continuous 4 k peak, tickling the 150volt peak limiter of the lab fp10000q (two of them, each one with one sub at 4 ohm, and one 15, one 12 one 1.4 at 8 ohm) and it sounded lush, i was amazed how much pressure only two subs were generating.
the rest of the system was running with ample headroom.
once again thanks to this wonderful community!
yes we built cubo kicks (with 18sound 15 d930 as suggested) and mt 121 (almost ROG original with double flare, not the simpler single flared TDA mt121 that were posted in the last pages) to go with b&c 18 sw115 th18s.
This sounds very good but mt 121 are big and heavy and the horns not so easy to build, and are cabs with a not so wide dispersion, medium long throw and lot of spl.
We play bass heavy reggae, but they are outrunning my th18s fed with 2 kw continuos each and i feel i'm gonna double the subs before adding another mt.
we wanted it that way, to cover outside events and have a lot of headroom and keep distortion down, but if you are committed to medium small events and are not looking forward to make it a bigger system i would look at smaller and lighter alternatives that would give plenty spl.
mt121 is 60 degrees dispersion average, so in many venues works better in couples to cover 90 degrees, this is something to consider, if you are going to stay with only two tops maybe 90x40 degrees would be more useful?
i like narrow dispersion to control reflections but outside it gets quite directional.
and here comes the kick... shouldn't this be king of tekno? most reports say th18s doesn't sound as sweet above 90-100 so you need a kick or a top to go down at least to 120. mt121 stops ay 170 180...
I suggest you look at ported designs to get low keeping it small, try to keep it at a size and wheigt you can pole mount it and bring the hf above heads. use neo drivers if possible. look at chris661 system thread in PA forum.
Or look at various 2x12 2x10 . 2x15 lots of kick but to big?
if that's not loud enough you may want to go four way and add a kick, take a look at the cubo kick we built, there's also a 12 inch version that goes to 250 hz. that with a 12 or ten inch reflex and a 1 cd on a 90 horn, and the cubo kick works well even in singles.
we have taken some measurements and set crossovers and delays - that were similar to the 5,8 ms at 80hz calculated here
. having it in phase with the kick is a joy, we still didn't add any eq to the subs, they sound sweet. we hi pass at 28 hz bw24 for low power and used 35 hz w24 for protection at hi power. gonna lower that to 32 bw 24 with some time and confidencewe took it in the city for a ride
pressure at chest height was insane with subs at that height, even meters away.
sound was always round, physical an well defined, musical.
we hit them with full 2.1 kw continuous 4 k peak, tickling the 150volt peak limiter of the lab fp10000q (two of them, each one with one sub at 4 ohm, and one 15, one 12 one 1.4 at 8 ohm) and it sounded lush, i was amazed how much pressure only two subs were generating.
the rest of the system was running with ample headroom.
once again thanks to this wonderful community!
Attachments
I've not heard the th-18, but my set of two keystones with 18sw 115( which are supposed to sound similar) I have used with 3 different tops(jbl eon15, Bfm 280, kling Freitag t9) and the t9 for example has a -3 of 130 hz, -10 at 100 and I don't feel I lack any kick when they are playing together. And I cross my subs at 106-112 hz, 24 dB filter
I was surprised of the amount of nice kick from the TH, I was expecting a somewhat dull sound from what I've read about THs but not at all. Then again it's no th-18 so take it for what it's worth.
I was surprised of the amount of nice kick from the TH, I was expecting a somewhat dull sound from what I've read about THs but not at all. Then again it's no th-18 so take it for what it's worth.
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hi Osse
the op said small dances i thought about 200 people and cost effective given it's diy,
that t9 looks very nice , fully horn loaded 12, 5cd, 1.4 cd but costs far more than a jbl eon15 or a th18 and if it's the right speaker...
Abmessung (B x H x T)600 x 910 x 880 mm (inkl. Rollen)
Gewicht 92 kg (inkl. Rollen)
makes my mt121 look light and tiny!
no doubt it sounds good and loud, but maybe overkill for small dances? with that size and weight to carry and STACK you'd better need it's full output.
And it does't get high enough on a th18 to get the hi mids out of people face.
i guess it's all in the definition of small....
and those three way tops are intriguing but i try to convince myself that until i need more spl from tops two way sounds good enough...
the op said small dances i thought about 200 people and cost effective given it's diy,
that t9 looks very nice , fully horn loaded 12, 5cd, 1.4 cd but costs far more than a jbl eon15 or a th18 and if it's the right speaker...
Abmessung (B x H x T)600 x 910 x 880 mm (inkl. Rollen)
Gewicht 92 kg (inkl. Rollen)
makes my mt121 look light and tiny!
no doubt it sounds good and loud, but maybe overkill for small dances? with that size and weight to carry and STACK you'd better need it's full output.
And it does't get high enough on a th18 to get the hi mids out of people face.
i guess it's all in the definition of small....
and those three way tops are intriguing but i try to convince myself that until i need more spl from tops two way sounds good enough...
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Hi all!
New to the thread. Been following this one 4 some time and recently, conditions turned up to allow for some woodwork and I got on building 2 of those myself!
I am finishing the cuts soon and I am about to order a pair of drivers and an amp.
Since I am no expert, I have hard times choosing between 4 and 8 ohm drivers.
What is the key point for one to bear into consideration when choosing?
I understand the watt-volt-current exchange that comes with the 8 vs 4 ohms.
Let's say, if I was to hook them up bridged mode on an amp capable of both 4 and 8 ohm impedance, would 2x4ohm in series be preferable to 2x8ohm parallel? or the other way? or something else?... Give me a hint if I am totally off here
And thanks to all 4 the posts, it looks like a very promising project
jo bg, I loved the photos from your recent setup (install some grills, I see drunken fingers poking into the drivers). Wishes for the best gigs there! Enjoy.
New to the thread. Been following this one 4 some time and recently, conditions turned up to allow for some woodwork and I got on building 2 of those myself!
I am finishing the cuts soon and I am about to order a pair of drivers and an amp.
Since I am no expert, I have hard times choosing between 4 and 8 ohm drivers.
What is the key point for one to bear into consideration when choosing?
I understand the watt-volt-current exchange that comes with the 8 vs 4 ohms.
Let's say, if I was to hook them up bridged mode on an amp capable of both 4 and 8 ohm impedance, would 2x4ohm in series be preferable to 2x8ohm parallel? or the other way? or something else?... Give me a hint if I am totally off here
And thanks to all 4 the posts, it looks like a very promising project
jo bg, I loved the photos from your recent setup (install some grills, I see drunken fingers poking into the drivers
). Wishes for the best gigs there! Enjoy.I'd say it depends, are you planning on only using two? 4 ohm drivers. Planning on building 2 more in the future? 8 ohm drivers. Neither case bridged. I aimed for the later when I built my two keystones.
You will need a very big amp to be able to drive the 18sw 115-8 to its maximum performance, mine delivers about 1400w rms at 8 ohm 40 hz and it's a good match, wouldn't want much less than that but a few hundred watts less would probably be fine. If ure using the 18tbw100 you can probably get away with a less powerful one.
A very cheap probably very potent combo would be 18tbw100-4 with an inuke6000, but if you are running the amp several hours every week for a few hundred people I would hesitate on picking the inuke not that I've heard them fail much but it's a cheap amp with cheap components.
Maybe you had an amp already? Where in Sweden are you located?
You will need a very big amp to be able to drive the 18sw 115-8 to its maximum performance, mine delivers about 1400w rms at 8 ohm 40 hz and it's a good match, wouldn't want much less than that but a few hundred watts less would probably be fine. If ure using the 18tbw100 you can probably get away with a less powerful one.
A very cheap probably very potent combo would be 18tbw100-4 with an inuke6000, but if you are running the amp several hours every week for a few hundred people I would hesitate on picking the inuke not that I've heard them fail much but it's a cheap amp with cheap components.
Maybe you had an amp already? Where in Sweden are you located?
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Thanks for the reply! I see the point (why no bridging?). I am not actually planning to have more, not in the near future definitely. Mostly I plan to continue with some kicks and tops later on.
So I would better consider 8ohms, one per channel.
For some reason I was mostly looking at the 18LW2400. But I will consider your cheap alternative since I am building it over my free time and own expenses and it's not gonna be used so often. I plan (hope?) that it will be used for larger parties amongst friends
I live in Luleå! I am not from here, actually I am greek, But I live over 3 years up here north.
btw, any suggestion where to buy from in terms of price and shipping in Sweden? There are several alternatives but is there anything I might be missing?
So I would better consider 8ohms, one per channel.
For some reason I was mostly looking at the 18LW2400. But I will consider your cheap alternative since I am building it over my free time and own expenses and it's not gonna be used so often. I plan (hope?) that it will be used for larger parties amongst friends
I live in Luleå! I am not from here, actually I am greek, But I live over 3 years up here north.
btw, any suggestion where to buy from in terms of price and shipping in Sweden? There are several alternatives but is there anything I might be missing?
I can't post links of some reason from my phone, go into bluearan.Co.uk and search for 18tbw100, I see that they are only 8 ohm models however and about 5 weeks delivery time
However, I have not read that much in this thread so my recommendation is merely due to the same driver being recommended in the keystone which is a similar construction to this one. It's a 12mm xmax driver vs 9.5mm and more modern and will probably be able to push a few more dbs than the lw2400, at least that's my guess!
The reason not to bridge to 4 ohm is that every side of the amp will see 2 ohm load(but that you probably already knew), and a lot of amps are not 2 ohm stable especially not when talking sustained bass notes. Bridge to 8 ohm will be just like 2 4 ohm loads, it's just a personal preference.
What music are you playing?
However, I have not read that much in this thread so my recommendation is merely due to the same driver being recommended in the keystone which is a similar construction to this one. It's a 12mm xmax driver vs 9.5mm and more modern and will probably be able to push a few more dbs than the lw2400, at least that's my guess!
The reason not to bridge to 4 ohm is that every side of the amp will see 2 ohm load(but that you probably already knew), and a lot of amps are not 2 ohm stable especially not when talking sustained bass notes. Bridge to 8 ohm will be just like 2 4 ohm loads, it's just a personal preference.
What music are you playing?
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Dub, hip-hop, jungle, grime and whatever comes along
In any case, low, sustained and heavy bass will be on the menu ! (that's why I have long now fancied a proper soundsystem).
Talking about bridged mode, I was thinking of 2x8ohms parallel. Lacking the experience, I don't really know for which case bridging is a solution. But if I get it right, it's preferable to have one on each channel..?
I don't have an amp so no restrictions on that.
In any case, low, sustained and heavy bass will be on the menu ! (that's why I have long now fancied a proper soundsystem).
Talking about bridged mode, I was thinking of 2x8ohms parallel. Lacking the experience, I don't really know for which case bridging is a solution. But if I get it right, it's preferable to have one on each channel..?
I don't have an amp so no restrictions on that.
2 8ohm drivers in parallell would be 4 ohm, each side of an amp bridged would see 2 ohm and it's not recommended from the majority of the amps to see that load if you don't plan to spend a lot on the amp.
I actually think the inuke 6000 would push the 8 ohm 18tbw100 without embarrassing itself, they deliver about 1000w sustained in the bass region from each channel in 8 ohm and using the amp in 8 ohm gives your amp a very easy life remember, you would probably need to limit the amp to 750-1000w rms for that specific driver, depending on the crest factor of the mysic played(compression ratio of the bass information)
I actually think the inuke 6000 would push the 8 ohm 18tbw100 without embarrassing itself, they deliver about 1000w sustained in the bass region from each channel in 8 ohm and using the amp in 8 ohm gives your amp a very easy life
remember, you would probably need to limit the amp to 750-1000w rms for that specific driver, depending on the crest factor of the mysic played(compression ratio of the bass information)I see your point!
I think I am gonna soon spend some "spänn" on 2x4ohms and an inuke.
Knowledge comes with happily experimenting (as long as I don't end with smoke coming out)...!
Thanks again for the info. I will update with pics on the course of the construction (and questions, most probably)
I think I am gonna soon spend some "spänn" on 2x4ohms and an inuke.
Knowledge comes with happily experimenting (as long as I don't end with smoke coming out)...!
Thanks again for the info. I will update with pics on the course of the construction (and questions, most probably)
Would it be mad to build these a bit wider? I don't really care about size or weight.
It seems to me that 914mm / 3ft wide would open up the mouth a bit and flatten out the response somewhat.
I've got a pair of Behringer 18SW1600DB drivers I need cabs for. I know these aren't the ideal drivers... but they are what I have. They are going next to 6 x 15" Eminence scoops. But I want a bit more bottom.
The other plan is to just build a pair of Emmy 18's but the TH-18's are about the same height as the Emmy 15's so they will stack easier.
Any thought's?
It seems to me that 914mm / 3ft wide would open up the mouth a bit and flatten out the response somewhat.
I've got a pair of Behringer 18SW1600DB drivers I need cabs for. I know these aren't the ideal drivers... but they are what I have. They are going next to 6 x 15" Eminence scoops. But I want a bit more bottom.
The other plan is to just build a pair of Emmy 18's but the TH-18's are about the same height as the Emmy 15's so they will stack easier.
Any thought's?