I am researching sealed subs for my HT. I prefer the sound of sealed and wish to stay that route.
I have modeled Tempest and Lambda SB15 drivers with good results but I would like to hear real world results. Good experience with either driver in a sealed config? What alignment? I planned on 0.57 for Tempest but 0.9 for Lambda due to box size.
I am looking for good flat response as close to 20 as possible in room. I cant seem to match some of the results from Adire's website with their boxes, but I trust their designs.
Any thoughts welcome including other driver recommendations.
Thanks!
Jim
I have modeled Tempest and Lambda SB15 drivers with good results but I would like to hear real world results. Good experience with either driver in a sealed config? What alignment? I planned on 0.57 for Tempest but 0.9 for Lambda due to box size.
I am looking for good flat response as close to 20 as possible in room. I cant seem to match some of the results from Adire's website with their boxes, but I trust their designs.
Any thoughts welcome including other driver recommendations.
Thanks!
Jim
You'll need to either know your room gain curve or build a flat enough sub that goes low enough to be able to attenuate to suit for low distortion. A 0.9 Qtc is too high.
The Northcreek Leviathan in 15ft^3 net is the 'best' of the ones I'm aware of, but dual Tempests in 7.25ft^3 net works pretty good for a typical HT room.
GM
The Northcreek Leviathan in 15ft^3 net is the 'best' of the ones I'm aware of, but dual Tempests in 7.25ft^3 net works pretty good for a typical HT room.
GM
sub versus efficency
The awfull truth about drivers is that to get a good bass response out of a small box you need a large moving mass. That inturn will limit the overall efficiency of the driver. A stronger motor structure will start to pinch off the low end. One balance against the other.
Why not look at the peerless drivers in the xls series??
I find that the audire driver specs are optimistic at best. See the linkwitz lab site for a thorough review of drivers and their salient parameters for his thor subwoofer. It may open your eyes with some more knowledge and your horizons for more drivers. Don't rule out cheaper multiple drivers set up in a non optimal box and then equalised as well. The possibilities are endless.
Mark
The awfull truth about drivers is that to get a good bass response out of a small box you need a large moving mass. That inturn will limit the overall efficiency of the driver. A stronger motor structure will start to pinch off the low end. One balance against the other.
Why not look at the peerless drivers in the xls series??
I find that the audire driver specs are optimistic at best. See the linkwitz lab site for a thorough review of drivers and their salient parameters for his thor subwoofer. It may open your eyes with some more knowledge and your horizons for more drivers. Don't rule out cheaper multiple drivers set up in a non optimal box and then equalised as well. The possibilities are endless.
Mark
hmmmmmmmmmmm
I modeled a dual DPL12 setup and got positive results...F3 at 28hz or so and efficiency up at 90. Plus the box is pretty small at 150 liter...or about 21x21x21 (inside)...ends up at Qtc of 0.69
What is rule of thumb for packing? e.g. 25% packing and adjust the internal volume how? I also need to figure the braces and add a bit of size to compensate.
The Lambda needs too big a box and I am not sold on Tempest for some reason.
Thanks!
Jim
I modeled a dual DPL12 setup and got positive results...F3 at 28hz or so and efficiency up at 90. Plus the box is pretty small at 150 liter...or about 21x21x21 (inside)...ends up at Qtc of 0.69
What is rule of thumb for packing? e.g. 25% packing and adjust the internal volume how? I also need to figure the braces and add a bit of size to compensate.
The Lambda needs too big a box and I am not sold on Tempest for some reason.
Thanks!
Jim
The ACI SV12 works very well in a 4 cu foot sealed box and I think they still have some scratch and dent specials for under $100 (USD) I bought 2 and they give my single Maelstrom a run for the money.
The pair sound as loud as I would ever need at 200w per channel (Adcom GFA-555) and very musical.
The pair sound as loud as I would ever need at 200w per channel (Adcom GFA-555) and very musical.
I'm using two NHT1259's
And have been happy with them.
Not sure about the Adire's but they do have a good reputation.
I'm using Madisound cabinets
the NHT1259's seem more accurate to me musically than the only Adire I have heard, the Adire seemed a little on the boomy side- the 1259 cabinets are also twice as large - so it wasn't really apples to apples.
Madisound describes the NHT1259 as lean and tight - which is probably a good description.
Long after I purchased mine, I found out that a number of folks on the bass list thought pretty highly of the NHT1259's - this was essentially a year or two ago so I don't know if that is still the case,
I was _very_ glad I had bought the NHT1259's when I recently started using them as active subs with my horns because I needed a slighlty higher crossover point. Don't know about the Adire's and Lambda's but the 1259's do go higher than many subs.
I would suggest not concerning yourself too much with how flat they are below 50 or so. They all need EQ down there to be flat - plus room modes come heavily into play -
From your posts and this thread, I would say go with the Adire 12's but if you don't want to build cabinets you should seriously consider the 1259's and probably ought to take a quick look at them anyhow.
I know this isn't the exact question that you are asking, but to help you understand how the 1259's sound - I thought they would not integrate as well with the horns as they have - they have really blended seamlessy and they don't have a boomy, boxy sound - a horn sub would be better probably but I was just planning to use them temporarily because they are what I had - however, they sound so good that replacing them is now a much lower priority - I chamged from the plate amps to Crown amps.
Frankly, I would be mildly surprised if the Adire's were as tight - the only thing I know that is negative about the 1259's is that the design is several years old - which in some ways is a plus. My guess is that the 1259's don't generate as much interest as some other subs because of the tight bass. However, it is more musical and real although not as impressive.
If your main interest is HT and not musical - you may well be happier with the Adire's - a little boom and emphasis may be exactly what some HT folks prefer
Regards
Ken L
And have been happy with them.
Not sure about the Adire's but they do have a good reputation.
I'm using Madisound cabinets
the NHT1259's seem more accurate to me musically than the only Adire I have heard, the Adire seemed a little on the boomy side- the 1259 cabinets are also twice as large - so it wasn't really apples to apples.
Madisound describes the NHT1259 as lean and tight - which is probably a good description.
Long after I purchased mine, I found out that a number of folks on the bass list thought pretty highly of the NHT1259's - this was essentially a year or two ago so I don't know if that is still the case,
I was _very_ glad I had bought the NHT1259's when I recently started using them as active subs with my horns because I needed a slighlty higher crossover point. Don't know about the Adire's and Lambda's but the 1259's do go higher than many subs.
I would suggest not concerning yourself too much with how flat they are below 50 or so. They all need EQ down there to be flat - plus room modes come heavily into play -
From your posts and this thread, I would say go with the Adire 12's but if you don't want to build cabinets you should seriously consider the 1259's and probably ought to take a quick look at them anyhow.
I know this isn't the exact question that you are asking, but to help you understand how the 1259's sound - I thought they would not integrate as well with the horns as they have - they have really blended seamlessy and they don't have a boomy, boxy sound - a horn sub would be better probably but I was just planning to use them temporarily because they are what I had - however, they sound so good that replacing them is now a much lower priority - I chamged from the plate amps to Crown amps.
Frankly, I would be mildly surprised if the Adire's were as tight - the only thing I know that is negative about the 1259's is that the design is several years old - which in some ways is a plus. My guess is that the 1259's don't generate as much interest as some other subs because of the tight bass. However, it is more musical and real although not as impressive.
If your main interest is HT and not musical - you may well be happier with the Adire's - a little boom and emphasis may be exactly what some HT folks prefer
Regards
Ken L
RE: Ken L and Adire DPL12
Ken,
My small sub that I brought to the recent DBH meeting near Asheville is an Adire DPL12 in a small sealed box --a 15" cube--so that the enclosed volume less the amplifier is in the 1-1.2 cu. ft. (28-34 liters) size, hence, very small for a 12" driver. It is stuffed heavy so that the Q falls to O.71. Modelling predicts a F3 of 35 Hz.
I'm using the RCMAkustik DT300 amp (300 watts RMS and 600 watts peak) and you can adjust the bass boost (either 3 or 6 dB) at 5 Hz increments 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, or 45 Hz. Hence, you can adust for room boost and/or extend the lower F3 point at expense of using more of the Xmax capability. I'm running a 3 dB boost at 30 Hz so that the low end rolloff is extended a little.
The DPL12 would go lower in a larger box but my design shows how you can create a small sub that will sound tight, get to 30 Hz, and yet have a reasonable rolloff into the 20's.
Jim
Ken,
My small sub that I brought to the recent DBH meeting near Asheville is an Adire DPL12 in a small sealed box --a 15" cube--so that the enclosed volume less the amplifier is in the 1-1.2 cu. ft. (28-34 liters) size, hence, very small for a 12" driver. It is stuffed heavy so that the Q falls to O.71. Modelling predicts a F3 of 35 Hz.
I'm using the RCMAkustik DT300 amp (300 watts RMS and 600 watts peak) and you can adjust the bass boost (either 3 or 6 dB) at 5 Hz increments 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, or 45 Hz. Hence, you can adust for room boost and/or extend the lower F3 point at expense of using more of the Xmax capability. I'm running a 3 dB boost at 30 Hz so that the low end rolloff is extended a little.
The DPL12 would go lower in a larger box but my design shows how you can create a small sub that will sound tight, get to 30 Hz, and yet have a reasonable rolloff into the 20's.
Jim
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