Now This is a sub! Bertha...W bin - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Subwoofers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th June 2012, 04:49 AM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: toronto
The GSA system follows Richard Long's Paradise Garage system design with Levan/Bertha subs, either Ulitima rear loaded horns with 15 inches or what appear to be side mounted JBL 4520 or something similar to Waldorfs (which was Richard's 2x18 larger version of the 4520) although the one in this picture appears to use 15 inch drivers with a larger mouth on the rear loaded horn, double JBL 2395 horns (copies?) with JBL or TAD drivers, and JBL 2402 or 2404 tweeters. The Levan is a hyperbolic horn expansion for shortest length to the cutoff frequency - though it's still not small - the trade off is the high frequency distortion increases faster than other expansion rates, but as the Levan horn only covered 2 octaves it isn't a big issue. The Levan (named for Leroy Levan the best known DJ of the Paradise Garage) was the mouth expansion of the bass cabinet which Richard called a Bertha. A single 18 half height Bertha was an Emerald ( i believe was first used at Emerald City disco in New Jersey).

The drawback to the system is it's horn loaded except for the 200 to 1khz range where it's a direct radiator ( done better in bigger systems by Richard) and the phase cancellation where the rear loaded horn is out of phase with the 15 inch direct radiator in the low mid band.

I don't know if GSA is using a crossover similar to the RLA 3000/ 4000/5000 but expect he is.

Last edited by ticknpop; 27th June 2012 at 05:17 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2012, 02:45 AM   #22
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: toronto
From further viewing of some GSA installation photos there is a GSA 3001 crossover which has the same functionality as the RLA 3000 - the RLA 3000 was build by Alan Fierstein of Acoustilog who did the room treatment of the Paradise Garage, and still services the RLA crossovers, but doesn't build new ones.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2012, 09:50 PM   #23
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
I finally was able to open up the back of the Bertha today. It has two large subwoofers. The numbers on both are 18016 and 67-8525. I want to thank you for your help but most of what you are telling me is way over my head. I'm not into electronics/music systems. I just happened to acquire these and am going to sell as a group. But I'm trying to gather information so I kinda know what I'm selling. Thanks again.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2013, 10:11 AM   #24
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany, South, near Stuttgart
Bertha and Levan are back! :-)

PIONEERPROAUDIO | PRODUCTS
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2013, 11:09 AM   #25
JLH is offline JLH  United States
diyAudio Member
 
JLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Indianapolis, IN
That looks a lot like the Klipsch patent number 4210223.
__________________
Ah, how beautifully the orchestra sounds before a rain! In a dry sunny day there is no way for the instruments to sound this way!
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2013, 07:05 PM   #26
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany, South, near Stuttgart
No its a different Horn, the Bertha is a EAW 2X18" Horn BH-882iP. If interesting, I post a drawing of the Bertha/Levan combination!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg levanplan.jpg (242.8 KB, 158 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2013, 12:49 AM   #27
JLH is offline JLH  United States
diyAudio Member
 
JLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakerFrank View Post
No its a different Horn, the Bertha is a EAW 2X18" Horn BH-882iP. If interesting, I post a drawing of the Bertha/Levan combination!
Yeah I know. What I meant was it was similar in some ways. Its not complicated. Its a very common folding method.
__________________
Ah, how beautifully the orchestra sounds before a rain! In a dry sunny day there is no way for the instruments to sound this way!
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2013, 12:50 AM   #28
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: toronto
The Pioneer system is based pretty closely on the Paradise Garage speaker system.
Bertha, Levans, Ultimas, 2395, 2402
Richard went on to build even better ones in later builds at big clubs, but this was his most famous. GSA used it too. The Klipsch design is somewhat different. Richard didn't invent all of his designs, he did modify/extend comercially compromised products and researched early RCA, Western Electric, and JBL designs - his horns were bigger than what anyone dared to build and he thought on a larger scale for number of drivers, size of speakers, bigger than most were willing find the space for or spend for. In NYC if you didn't have an RLA system people knew....

Last edited by ticknpop; 30th July 2013 at 01:07 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Parts Bin SirNickity Parts 4 18th November 2010 07:05 PM
W-bin tomdred Subwoofers 1 18th March 2010 11:13 PM
Bin Design virusaudio Subwoofers 4 2nd June 2007 12:51 AM
Fresh out of the Bin! impsick The Lounge 2 31st March 2007 06:20 PM
SWR Big Bertha plas abonas Multi-Way 1 11th February 2003 02:33 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:46 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2