I'm looking into building some sub cabinets to enhance the low end considerably in a local low-budget music-venue in a small city, and when I say low-budget I mean this sure ain't a lucrative endeavor (yet 'fingers crossed'). I've been searching around the web to find some folded horn designs, being that I've heard that these give you the best potential output, but I've come to find that there are an overwhelming amount of options and different designs to take in to account. The frustrating thing is that there is not really any web sites out there concisely explaining each design, their advantages and disadvantages or any sort of comparison, that I can find anyways. Typical of the web there's just a ton of little bits and pieces of info out there but nothing really substantial.
So here's what I'm working with. I don't have exact model numbers of the drivers on hand but I could track em down if absolutely necessary. We basically have 3 15" drivers I want to use for subs. One is a high performance eminence, another is a competition Blaupunkt car sub from the late 90s, and the last is some eco model of some sort that may not even get the make over.
Even though the size of the venue is a medium hall, max occupancy of 200 with 25' high ceilings, we want to be able to take this system outside as well if needed so I'm thinking long-through designs are my best bet. Plus we really want these puppies to slam when we have a dj line-up. Mobility is a concern though, cause one of my buddies that a lot of the equipment belongs to has a bad back :-/
So, for the above reasons I've been looking at the Titan 48 design here at Titan 48 . I'm just nervous that these are bogus claims and that there could be a better way to go. Being that we have very little funds I have to invest wisely. I know that there are things to consider like the the driver's specified volume that will affect the performance. But I guess what I'm trying to get at is what the best design type may be for my desired effect (FAT HARD HITTING BASS), whether it be a folded horn or tapped horn (whatever that is) or tuned boxes, and a good place to get some schematics to build some of these suckers. And maybe someone could be so gracious as to do a run down of all the different cabinet designs they're familiar with and their characteristics. That would be awesome!!!
Oh, and what about the w-boxes? They look like they'd be pretty awesome but read somewhere that they're no good. Not that I'd build one either way because it'd be to heavy for 15's, but I'm curious.
Thanks for taking a look at this and for your considerations. I'm really looking forward to being involved with this community and getting dirty out in the shop as a result
Peace
So here's what I'm working with. I don't have exact model numbers of the drivers on hand but I could track em down if absolutely necessary. We basically have 3 15" drivers I want to use for subs. One is a high performance eminence, another is a competition Blaupunkt car sub from the late 90s, and the last is some eco model of some sort that may not even get the make over.
Even though the size of the venue is a medium hall, max occupancy of 200 with 25' high ceilings, we want to be able to take this system outside as well if needed so I'm thinking long-through designs are my best bet. Plus we really want these puppies to slam when we have a dj line-up. Mobility is a concern though, cause one of my buddies that a lot of the equipment belongs to has a bad back :-/
So, for the above reasons I've been looking at the Titan 48 design here at Titan 48 . I'm just nervous that these are bogus claims and that there could be a better way to go. Being that we have very little funds I have to invest wisely. I know that there are things to consider like the the driver's specified volume that will affect the performance. But I guess what I'm trying to get at is what the best design type may be for my desired effect (FAT HARD HITTING BASS), whether it be a folded horn or tapped horn (whatever that is) or tuned boxes, and a good place to get some schematics to build some of these suckers. And maybe someone could be so gracious as to do a run down of all the different cabinet designs they're familiar with and their characteristics. That would be awesome!!!
Oh, and what about the w-boxes? They look like they'd be pretty awesome but read somewhere that they're no good. Not that I'd build one either way because it'd be to heavy for 15's, but I'm curious.
Thanks for taking a look at this and for your considerations. I'm really looking forward to being involved with this community and getting dirty out in the shop as a result
Peace
It's very simple, build four SS15 and sell the odd woofers you have laying around.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/170771-single-sheet-th-challenge.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/170771-single-sheet-th-challenge.html
A driver needs to be matched to your design. Take a look at the T/S parameters if you can find them. You can't just use any driver for a folded horn. The Q needs to be matched.
Take a look at this webpage Speaker Enclosure Volume Calculator
Take a look at this webpage Speaker Enclosure Volume Calculator
Don't forget the high pass filters and 24dB/Oct crossovers if using tapped horns.
Since you have a PA woofer and a automotive woofer, I'm not sure that a single type of enclosure would work well with them. I used two old Cerwin Vega PA woofers and tried first in a sealed box--it didn't work very well. Once I threw a tuned passive radiator on the box, it came alive.
The Thiele/Small parameters are a good place to start, get those numbers and it will give you a good idea what box works with the speakers. As others have posted, some speakers work with horns and others don't. Considering the complexity of the build, the amount of wood required and processing requirements, sometimes getting the correct woofer is cheaper in the long run.
Another option is to get the T/S parameters, start with a simple ported or sealed box and see how that works for you. The tapped horns/front loaded horns can come later to really get the bass SPLs moving. With bass in large spaces, it is rare to ever have too much.
Good luck!
Since you have a PA woofer and a automotive woofer, I'm not sure that a single type of enclosure would work well with them. I used two old Cerwin Vega PA woofers and tried first in a sealed box--it didn't work very well. Once I threw a tuned passive radiator on the box, it came alive.
The Thiele/Small parameters are a good place to start, get those numbers and it will give you a good idea what box works with the speakers. As others have posted, some speakers work with horns and others don't. Considering the complexity of the build, the amount of wood required and processing requirements, sometimes getting the correct woofer is cheaper in the long run.
Another option is to get the T/S parameters, start with a simple ported or sealed box and see how that works for you. The tapped horns/front loaded horns can come later to really get the bass SPLs moving. With bass in large spaces, it is rare to ever have too much.
Good luck!
+1 to djk and Mr.doom, by the sound of the size of the hall those two drivers won't do too much "slamming" even in the proper enclosures and definetly not outside. Not enuf rig for da gig. What amount of SPL are you looking for? What is the approx. size
of the hall?(40*60)? Keep in mind the trade-off of higher efficiency with a horn is usually a larger(heavier) enclosure
of the hall?(40*60)? Keep in mind the trade-off of higher efficiency with a horn is usually a larger(heavier) enclosure
Woooo, I knew this wasn't going to be easy. Thanks for all the links. I've got a lot of homework to do. Found the post on Tapped Horns. Pretty fascinating stuff! I'm going to have to get the model of that eminence, but I know it's only about a year or two old and it's high dollar. I'll be working on the setup tomorrow so I'll do it then.
As far as the Blaupunkt goes, I see that I'm going to have to build different cabs for the different specs the drivers require. Sorry, I knew that this post that I read on some other site was misleading as far as the importance of knowing what volume your driver calls for. I pretty sure that when I built the sealed box that it's in it was done to the required specs. Funny thing is when I built them, a good 12 years back, I had two and built both boxes to the same specs. At first I wasn't happy with their performance so I cut ports in the boxes. Still wasn't happy. But then I noticed that when I covered the ports of one of them it sounded way better then if both were either sealed or ported. I did all this as a young teenager so it was pretty amateur work, but my neighbors down the street could hear it bumpin in their living room some 50 yards away, and that's from my bedroom on the back side of the house running through a guitar amp, lol. So I'm pretty sure it's a decent driver. Certainly blurred my vision, heheheee. The dimensions on the box are 12"x17"x17" which is 3468 in3 / 56830 cm3
So I'm not sure what the different Qs are, as in what people are talking about when they use those expressions, or what t/s parameters are. But like I said, I've got a lot of homework to do. So hopefully I'll be up to par here soon. Sorry about my naivety. Please bare with me.
Ahh, and the hall is about 100'x75' or 30x22 m. Maybe a bit bigger.
Thanks again guys.
As far as the Blaupunkt goes, I see that I'm going to have to build different cabs for the different specs the drivers require. Sorry, I knew that this post that I read on some other site was misleading as far as the importance of knowing what volume your driver calls for. I pretty sure that when I built the sealed box that it's in it was done to the required specs. Funny thing is when I built them, a good 12 years back, I had two and built both boxes to the same specs. At first I wasn't happy with their performance so I cut ports in the boxes. Still wasn't happy. But then I noticed that when I covered the ports of one of them it sounded way better then if both were either sealed or ported. I did all this as a young teenager so it was pretty amateur work, but my neighbors down the street could hear it bumpin in their living room some 50 yards away, and that's from my bedroom on the back side of the house running through a guitar amp, lol. So I'm pretty sure it's a decent driver. Certainly blurred my vision, heheheee. The dimensions on the box are 12"x17"x17" which is 3468 in3 / 56830 cm3
So I'm not sure what the different Qs are, as in what people are talking about when they use those expressions, or what t/s parameters are. But like I said, I've got a lot of homework to do. So hopefully I'll be up to par here soon. Sorry about my naivety. Please bare with me.
Ahh, and the hall is about 100'x75' or 30x22 m. Maybe a bit bigger.
Thanks again guys.
That bump and low frequency sound that car subs emit is mostly distortion from vibrating panels and a peak in the box tuning. Not something you will want for live sound.
It is not that the speakers are junk, they are just not efficient enough for this application. If you are looking to get good sound outdoors on a budget shoot for a strong mid base and forget about the sub base.
It is not that the speakers are junk, they are just not efficient enough for this application. If you are looking to get good sound outdoors on a budget shoot for a strong mid base and forget about the sub base.
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