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Old 25th July 2003, 02:00 PM   #1
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Default Car subwoofer usage in PA application

Hi there,

I'm looking at using Kicker subwoofers for subbass in a PA system. I already succesfully used the Peerless XLS10 (click here for details) and am now looking for a 15 inch variant.

Is there anybody out there with experience using this type of subwoofer in PA setups ?

Thanks - Chris
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Old 27th July 2003, 07:12 AM   #2
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im no pa guy but heres a few thoughts.

PA= loud and low distortion


what sort of PA? tinny sounding voice address? club? outdoor event?
i dont reccomend using normal hifi/hometheatre woofers in PA gear.

1=lack of efficiency
2=higher compression
3=low spl because of the lack of efficiency,your input power will be near the rms max,meaning the compression is always very bad.

i reccomend 18sound etc for PA use rather than using home gear for PA.

www.eighteensound.it

although i havent used any of their products,their boxes model well,and are cheaper than jbl,and a guy has used the 18 here

link
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Old 27th July 2003, 11:22 AM   #3
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Quote:
what sort of PA? tinny sounding voice address? club? outdoor event?
Mainly small-medium club / cafe usage with a max of around 200 square meters (dunno what that is in old money - feet etc sorry).

Quote:
PA= loud and low distortion
...and huge as in large, heavy, back breaking. The Q I ask myself is that if there are lightweight amps out there why do roadies still keep up with those unbearable large sub systems ? I agree you need them when doing an open air gig but does the same apply for the average club in Amsterdam ? No.

To put things into perspective let me provide you with some background info. I dont know if you are familiar with the MFB systems Philips produced back in the 80's, but it is this sound that I'm trying to reproduce using long stroke subwoofers. By using a electronic servo circuit to control woofer excursion these systems where able to produce low freqencies which normally could only be created using large (as in 15 & 18 inch based) speaker systems.

Philips MFB flagship, the 545 which got used in studios was famous for its lows and altough it's kinda ancient when compared to whats out there today (especially spl wise) there are still lots of people out there that dream of owning a pair of those speakers, mainly because of its bass response.

The biggest advantage of MFB was and as I believe still is, is that it's capable of producing the imagination that you are listening to a much larger (subbass) system. The biggest disadvantage is that its not able to keep up with the SPL modern monitors put out nowadays.

So when I started work on my TwinPowers the idea was to create a relatively small set capable of produce the same "large set" experience, very much Philips did twenty years ago, but with more power to it and using modern drivers and amps. Without wanting to sound bigheaded I do believe I pretty much succeeded in doing so as the one comment I get very often when doing gigs is that people are asthonished by the fact that such a small system is capable of delivering such big sound.

Anyway, because of the limited SPL the XLS is capable of putting out I started looking for a bigger longstroke woofer and after doing some search I bumped into drivers from Kicker en JLaudio, hence my original Q.

Thanks - CC
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Old 28th July 2003, 01:01 AM   #4
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What kicker subs are you looking at?

I used to own a Kicker S15D. And I'm thinking of building some home subs using a pair of Credence 15" subwoofers, which is just like a Kicker S15C, but only $120 for pair on Ebay.

The subwoofer is designed for a sealed box, but I have heard of people putting Kicker solobarics in a vented box.

I know about the 89 db effiency rating. But it's one of the loudest car subs I've ever owned and I've owned a lot. Probably due to it's 750 rms watt rating. I read a review before I bought it at caraudioreview.com (or something like that) and one dude stated in his review: I have four Kicker Solobaric 15's in an SUV and they're louder as hell "infact they kind of hurt . . . all you need is one." After I bought one I figure out what he meant by "kind of hurt." I couldn't listen to them loudly in my car when I was hungover because I thought I was going to throw up. Definitely good for club, although I don't know about a cafe A cafe in Holland is a lot different then America, uh?
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Old 28th July 2003, 12:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
What kicker subs are you looking at?
I got very impressed by the S15L7 which was demo'ed by a "good guys" like reseller over here in Amsterdam. The demo consisted of just 1 driver in a vented enclosure hooked up to a kenwood amp doing only 300 watts.

It didn't had the punch you normally get from standard 15/18 subs but man, it produced subsonics in a way you seldom hear.

The idea is to use 4 of them in total, 2 per channel. Knowing my fp3400 delivers 1700 watts rms at 2 ohms per channel it should be sufficient for most venues.

Quote:
although I don't know about a cafe A cafe in Holland is a lot different then America, uh?
no, it's the same cafe. the one you are referring to is called a coffeeshop
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Old 28th July 2003, 07:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by chriscam
no, it's the same cafe. the one you are referring to is called a coffeeshop
Damn my unsiffisticatedness is showing again. What's a cafe then, I thought it was a place where they sell coffee, like a coffershop? In Amsterdam a cafe is where they go and smoke drugs, is it not? It's important I know, I will be going there to smoke some drugs in a few weeks, hopefully. Note to admin: where's the pot smoking smiley face? There's about a dozen drunk or drinking smiley faces.

I've heard that the sound quality of the square Kicker subs is not that good, but I've never heard them. Seems like a dome would be much better structurely for a cone then the design Kicker came up with. Why did you deside to put them in vented boxes, SPL? Brings me back to your origial question, why wouldn't you be able to use Kicker subs for a PA system? The low effiency or the low cross-over frequency prehaps?
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Old 29th July 2003, 04:08 AM   #7
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model the kicker in winisd.if you think you can make it do what you want,give it a go.

i would get a labsub or 2 if i ever was going to operate a venue of any sort. <105db efficiency and nice horn sound>


www.prosoundweb.com

90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 113 116db <low eff sub.
1....2......4.......8....16....32....64....128...2 56...512watts
105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 131db <basshorn.

the labsubs take over 1kw each if they have to.

2labs picture...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg woof.jpg (33.5 KB, 146 views)
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Old 29th July 2003, 08:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by mikee12345
model the kicker in winisd.if you think you can make it do what you want,give it a go.

i would get a labsub or 2 if i ever was going to operate a venue of any sort. <105db efficiency and nice horn sound>


www.prosoundweb.com

90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 113 116db <low eff sub.
1....2......4.......8....16....32....64....128...2 56...512watts
105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 131db <basshorn.

the labsubs take over 1kw each if they have to.

2labs picture...

where can i find the plans for the labhorn?
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Old 29th July 2003, 09:58 AM   #9
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Ahhhh, never been on prosoundweb before (thanks mike12345 !!), they even maintain a forum called Subwoofer Project.

cheers - cc

ps, mike, just bumped into their labplans , nice pics and dimensions in both mm as inch.
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