Not your average open baffle sub advice sought

imix500 · 10:34 PM

Hello all,
doesn't look like this has been discussed in a while, so I'm seeking advice.

I am looking for a high output 12" driver for use in a nearly free air application. The driver has to fit within a theatrical set piece to augment a battery powered pa and really just needs to rumble. There is no room for an enclosure, although possibly a baffle, and it will be down-firing. Also, the driver cannot be deeper than 5.5" Efficiency would be nice but we will be powering the rig from some large car amplifiers, so power will be available.
Output is much more important than sound quality, so I did look to a couple car subs.
Any advice would be appreciated, as other than the ideal Qts, I have no experience with OB designs.

I looked for drivers with a Qts of around .7 and here are the drivers I've found so far.

Dayton RSS315HO-4

MTX JH4512-04

Pioneer TS-W303R

12ib4 - Jl

bentoronto · 25th January 2011, 03:29 PM

Fidelity is not an issue, just rumble-ability?

If so, any cheap driver and attach a large lump of duck-seal or other putty or tire-balance weights to the dust cap to bring the resonance down low. "Attach" can include running the speaker face-up, making hole(s) in the dust cap, glue, etc.

imix500 · 26th January 2011, 02:20 AM

We ended up getting one of these:

MTX TT6512-02

If it sucks I'll try your advice on another driver. Does adding weight increase Qts and well as lower Fs?

ontariomaximus · 26th January 2011, 02:37 AM

Your choice looks like a good one. I doubt you'd want to add mass. FS and QTS in a good range.

bentoronto · 26th January 2011, 03:03 AM

I'm not sure what could be the target parameters for a non-enclosed speaker intended to just rumble. Except resonance Hz... which is just a matter of adding weight to any cheap driver. Of course, there's no rumble without an enclosure - or buying a bunch of cheap drivers so you have a large amount of moving real-estate.

I think the art needed is creating a big enough baffle out of the set furnishings without looking massive to the audience. That's a simple matter of using a piece of string, so to speak, to ensure no front-to-back "short circuits" for the sound, literally speaking.

BTW, since there is no sound localization for low frequencies, why bother locating the sound source on the stage? You can have the actors point to something and say, "The old clock just struck 10..." and everybody will "hear" the clock rumble no matter where the speaker is in the "house". But if there is content (or distortion) above about 150 Hz, people will localize the sound.

CLS · 26th January 2011, 03:21 AM

How about some vibrators under seats?

imix500 · 26th January 2011, 11:44 AM

Thanks for the replies,

bentoronto- much of what we are working with is per the designer who has done this show before across the pond. Since it was done before, he is very reluctant to change. This is part of a 2.1 system built into a mobile set piece that resembles military hardware. We were given some vague details, but no model numbers of what worked before. There is a possibility of adding a baffle or a small enclosure, but I'm not counting on it.

CLS- the theater isn't really setup for butt kickers, although installing 1000+ units would be a great gig. There are going to be around a dozen really good subs around the theater so the tools are there.

bjorno · 26th January 2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imix500

Hello all,
doesn't look like this has been discussed in a while, so I'm seeking advice.

I am looking for a high output 12" driver for use in a nearly free air application. The driver has to fit within a theatrical set piece to augment a battery powered pa and really just needs to rumble. There is no room for an enclosure, although possibly a baffle, and it will be down-firing. Also, the driver cannot be deeper than 5.5" Efficiency would be nice but we will be powering the rig from some large car amplifiers, so power will be available.
Output is much more important than sound quality, so I did look to a couple car subs.
Any advice would be appreciated, as other than the ideal Qts, I have no experience with OB designs.

I looked for drivers with a Qts of around .7 and here are the drivers I've found so far...

Dayton RSS315HO-4

Hi imix500,

See a suggestion using the Dayton driver:

b

cecaa850 · 26th January 2011, 04:28 PM

What about a Ficaraudio IB3? Thay are made for IB applications. I can't get the spec page to pull up however.

23rd January 2011, 10:21 PM	#1
imix500 Proud Union Member diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Nashville, TN	Not your average open baffle sub advice sought Hello all, doesn't look like this has been discussed in a while, so I'm seeking advice. I am looking for a high output 12" driver for use in a nearly free air application. The driver has to fit within a theatrical set piece to augment a battery powered pa and really just needs to rumble. There is no room for an enclosure, although possibly a baffle, and it will be down-firing. Also, the driver cannot be deeper than 5.5" Efficiency would be nice but we will be powering the rig from some large car amplifiers, so power will be available. Output is much more important than sound quality, so I did look to a couple car subs. Any advice would be appreciated, as other than the ideal Qts, I have no experience with OB designs. I looked for drivers with a Qts of around .7 and here are the drivers I've found so far. Dayton RSS315HO-4 MTX JH4512-04 Pioneer TS-W303R 12ib4 - Jl Last edited by imix500; 23rd January 2011 at 10:34 PM. Reason: One more driver

25th January 2011, 03:29 PM	#2
bentoronto diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL	Fidelity is not an issue, just rumble-ability? If so, any cheap driver and attach a large lump of duck-seal or other putty or tire-balance weights to the dust cap to bring the resonance down low. "Attach" can include running the speaker face-up, making hole(s) in the dust cap, glue, etc. __________________ Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), Klipschorn mixed-bass woofer w/param. EQ plus 1954 AR-1W or giant OB HiFi construction since 1956

26th January 2011, 03:03 AM	#5
bentoronto diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL	I'm not sure what could be the target parameters for a non-enclosed speaker intended to just rumble. Except resonance Hz... which is just a matter of adding weight to any cheap driver. Of course, there's no rumble without an enclosure - or buying a bunch of cheap drivers so you have a large amount of moving real-estate. I think the art needed is creating a big enough baffle out of the set furnishings without looking massive to the audience. That's a simple matter of using a piece of string, so to speak, to ensure no front-to-back "short circuits" for the sound, literally speaking. BTW, since there is no sound localization for low frequencies, why bother locating the sound source on the stage? You can have the actors point to something and say, "The old clock just struck 10..." and everybody will "hear" the clock rumble no matter where the speaker is in the "house". But if there is content (or distortion) above about 150 Hz, people will localize the sound. __________________ Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), Klipschorn mixed-bass woofer w/param. EQ plus 1954 AR-1W or giant OB HiFi construction since 1956

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26th January 2011, 02:20 AM	#3
imix500 Proud Union Member diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Nashville, TN	We ended up getting one of these: MTX TT6512-02 If it sucks I'll try your advice on another driver. Does adding weight increase Qts and well as lower Fs?

26th January 2011, 02:37 AM	#4
ontariomaximus diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2011	Your choice looks like a good one. I doubt you'd want to add mass. FS and QTS in a good range.

26th January 2011, 03:21 AM	#6
CLS diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Taiwan	How about some vibrators under seats?

26th January 2011, 11:44 AM	#7
imix500 Proud Union Member diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Nashville, TN	Thanks for the replies, bentoronto- much of what we are working with is per the designer who has done this show before across the pond. Since it was done before, he is very reluctant to change. This is part of a 2.1 system built into a mobile set piece that resembles military hardware. We were given some vague details, but no model numbers of what worked before. There is a possibility of adding a baffle or a small enclosure, but I'm not counting on it. CLS- the theater isn't really setup for butt kickers, although installing 1000+ units would be a great gig. There are going to be around a dozen really good subs around the theater so the tools are there.

26th January 2011, 04:28 PM	#9
cecaa850 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2011	What about a Ficaraudio IB3? Thay are made for IB applications. I can't get the spec page to pull up however.

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