Looks like good precision cuts there, in the US this is an impossible feat. The store equipment and operators are generally lackluster at best.Servas Nachbar!
Thanks a lot for your help, very fast response, wasn't sure if you'd still be lurking here, with your SS15s built so long ago.
Wow, 6 Dubhorns sounds quite impressive.... Where will one be able to hear that system? I make it out to Salzburg occasionally, have some friends living there.
Got my wood today, 127€ for 2 sheets, enough for 2 tops and 1 sub sans bracing - gonna see what I can do in way of scraps I have at home for bracing.
Now all I need to do is wait for my drivers to arrive! And maybe find a Crown XTI amp for less than 649€......
EDIT: 12mm ply feels reaaaalllyy thin - I'm going to have to trust you on this one, jim!
Precision Cuts
I have made the same experiences in Austria. Precision is better than one mm! However, there is a price to pay for this service.
Regards, Ben
P.S. and yes, working with such thin wood takes some getting used to, but you'll love the (rvery low) weight of it.
Looks like good precision cuts there, in the US this is an impossible feat. The store equipment and operators are generally lackluster at best.
I have made the same experiences in Austria. Precision is better than one mm! However, there is a price to pay for this service.
Regards, Ben
P.S. and yes, working with such thin wood takes some getting used to, but you'll love the (rvery low) weight of it.
Repeat after me.
B R A C I N G!
You get much farther with 12mm panels that are well braced than with 18mm panels that are not braced.
If bracing gets lost in translating think about putting a block of wood a points where there is potential for panels to bend. Spreading a load over two or more flat panels by means of tying them together will create a very stiff cabinet.
And nice pics on the correct type of adhesive.
B R A C I N G!
You get much farther with 12mm panels that are well braced than with 18mm panels that are not braced.
If bracing gets lost in translating think about putting a block of wood a points where there is potential for panels to bend. Spreading a load over two or more flat panels by means of tying them together will create a very stiff cabinet.
And nice pics on the correct type of adhesive.
There is definitely a price to pay, but I think I have found one of the best deals for it in the area. Wood is generally pricey around here, and I managed to get 2 sheets for 127€, precision cut to less than 1mm accuracy. I'm sure it's more than north americans pay, but I have neither the facility for accurate straight cuts, nor the ability to transport full sheets of wood (small car!).
Ok, so my friend DJIM gently got me to act on this.... I haven't touched the ss15 design in months -- it just works so well.
The only downside for me, is that it is not a 'flat to 40' box. And I'm big on flat to 40.
So, a bit of 'S2 cone correction' instead of a compression plate.
1" taller and 1" narrower...
and the SS15 can now hit with authority an honest to goodness 40hz.
This is still on paper and hornresp only, and it'll be a week or so before I can build/test... But I do have assembled 'original' SS15 cabinets, and I can do an A-->B comparison.
It "should" eliminate the one glaring weakness I see in the ss15. And it still does it from a single sheet, but this time you really do have nothing but sawdust left over... You even have to use the driver disk cut out from the baffle board as bracing.
Hey Jim, I'm having some trouble reading your measurements describing what distances from the edges the boards are to be placed. I've played around with a sketchup model, trying to get the most linear possible expansion, but I have to say my results look quite different from yours.
DISCLAIMER FOR ANYONE BROWSING THIS THREAD: THIS IS NOT THE OFFICIAL JBELL LAYOUT
As you can see, my path divider coming from the top of the horn is perpendicular to the top, and not angled like yours. However observing the cross sections, this seems to yield a good expansion on paper. It would be great if you could write your measurements more legibly for me
Still waiting for my Delivery of Eminences....
Oh and one more thing: what's this threads opinion on a good finish. Speaker felt, or some kind of robust paint? I already have edge rails and corner protectors on the way.
Speaker Cabinet Coatings | Texture Coating for Speakers | Road Cases Protective Coating
Highly rated around here and a few other forums/garages
Hi Bart,
The B&C 15TBX100 is not really suited for the SS15. It would perform way better in a THAM design. The SS15 asks for a driver with a lower BL force like the RCF L15P200AK.
i didnt read through all 32 pages, but im just about to go ahead and purchase a pair of JBL drivers for my SS15 cabs and just wanted to confirm what im seeing here..
before i go on, i must say i LOVE my SS15 cabs. i was using a pair of china brand 200w drivers and they sounded absolutely incredible and now theyre dead so i want more! better!
i just cant justify spending $130 freight on a $166 item. but, have found a JBL driver that i can get for $159 freight free in my country. its a JB1500N rated at 600wrms so will be fine for me when i rearrange my amp wiring.
here is my hornresp response sim. black = Kappa15lf pro grey= JB1500N
can someone please confirm what my brain does not believe my eyes are seeing.
before i go on, i must say i LOVE my SS15 cabs. i was using a pair of china brand 200w drivers and they sounded absolutely incredible and now theyre dead so i want more! better!
i just cant justify spending $130 freight on a $166 item. but, have found a JBL driver that i can get for $159 freight free in my country. its a JB1500N rated at 600wrms so will be fine for me when i rearrange my amp wiring.
here is my hornresp response sim. black = Kappa15lf pro grey= JB1500N
can someone please confirm what my brain does not believe my eyes are seeing.
Hi Klampykixx,
I am not qualified to confirming anything about the state of your brain
but it looks like you made a small error in your input parameter page. Anyway, it looks like a good pick for the SS15 on paper...
Hi Klampykixx,
I am not qualified to confirming anything about the state of your brain
]
ok, so when you say my input parameters, i cant remember now if i got my specs from my actual cabs, or someone elses file. but, if your talking about the output db, i have my input voltage set to 50v coz thats what i estimate my amp to put out. but even still, i used the same cab spec and just changed the driver spec, so is still a good back to back simulation.
im pretty happy, to say the least, that the JB1500N should sound decent according to the sim, as most other drivers i've simulated in hornresp have horrible dips n spikes that the kappa just doesnt have.
and to add tho that, the (crap) Fusion EN-SW12HD car subwoofer i have loaded into one of my cabs simulates HORRIBLY but yet, to me, sounds somewhat acceptable. so in that, i cant wait to get some semi decent drivers into the cabs!
now, i have a question regarding my previous drivers. Ultimately, they were cheap china rubbish out of a DJtech active subwoofer cab. so probably rated at barely 200w. they were sucking down close to 800w (based on the output meter on the amp) but seemed to be handling it ok. didnt sound distorted or like they were stuggling, just sounded good
but, after about an hour of this, they gave up in a BIG cloud of smoke. so basically, wondering if it was my lack of <40hz filtering, or just too much power for the cheap subs. or is that too hard to determine from a bunch of text?
Lack of HP filter will likely show as mechanical damage, (split surrounds, torn cones), and too much power as thermal damage.
ok. so basically then what i found via the autopsy was severe burns. no broken bones or tears.
thing is, when they were pumping, there was barely any cone movement at all. where, in the ported boxes they came from they flopped all over the place on just 150w...
eh.. either way. ill be getting myself a pair of the JBLs when my tax clears.. should be fun
thing is, when they were pumping, there was barely any cone movement at all. where, in the ported boxes they came from they flopped all over the place on just 150w...
eh.. either way. ill be getting myself a pair of the JBLs when my tax clears.. should be fun
Hi klampykixx,
Your sim of post#1568 is not a sim of a standard SS15. That is why I showed the sim of a SS15 loaded with a JB-1500N in post#1571.
Tapped horns have excursions dips in the frequency range that you can describe as points where there cone excursion is minimum. At these points the driver is suffering from thermal power compression. It means that the input power is not transferred into movement but into heat. These excursion dips can be found in the “Diaphragm Displacement” page in the window menu of HornResp. If you compare the excursion with the impedance you can see at the excursion minimums there are also impedance minimums (see red arrows in the picture). That means the most power runs trough the Voice coil at frequencies of the excursion minimums.
Your sim of post#1568 is not a sim of a standard SS15. That is why I showed the sim of a SS15 loaded with a JB-1500N in post#1571.
Tapped horns have excursions dips in the frequency range that you can describe as points where there cone excursion is minimum. At these points the driver is suffering from thermal power compression. It means that the input power is not transferred into movement but into heat. These excursion dips can be found in the “Diaphragm Displacement” page in the window menu of HornResp. If you compare the excursion with the impedance you can see at the excursion minimums there are also impedance minimums (see red arrows in the picture). That means the most power runs trough the Voice coil at frequencies of the excursion minimums.
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thats actually really good info, and didnt know how to read that. and makes 100% sense regarding heat build up. especially when the drivers sound like they can keep taking more and more power due to lack of distortion.
now, it was said that i dont have the correct ss15 specs in hornresp. ill post up later what i have as my setting to reflect against what you guys have, it was a while ago now, but im pretty sure i based my HR specs off my own cabs rather than "standard" numbers. i know my cabs shouldnt be far off what Jbells were, so yea, ill post up my input params page later. as on further inspection my response graph it is definately lower range than others.
now, it was said that i dont have the correct ss15 specs in hornresp. ill post up later what i have as my setting to reflect against what you guys have, it was a while ago now, but im pretty sure i based my HR specs off my own cabs rather than "standard" numbers. i know my cabs shouldnt be far off what Jbells were, so yea, ill post up my input params page later. as on further inspection my response graph it is definately lower range than others.
Hi Klampykixx,
Your HornResp of post#1578 looks like a different design with an (internal) system volume of 595 Litre. That’s probably more than twice the volume of your actual build cab. You can check this yourself in the "schematic Diagram" page in the Window menu of HornResp.
I can't judge the adjustments you made since I don't know the changes exactly. Based on the picture it seems you used 18mm plywood and (9mm?) braces. That's a nice improvement
. It also means it's slightly smaller in volume than an original SS15, when made from one sheet. Normally small adjustments like that have no significant influence on the functioning/performance. Therefore I see no problem in using the original SS15 Hornresp inputs to model any driver.
BTW in your country the Ande LB1560 driver is available for about AU $199. It sims very well in the SS15, has a strong motor, 100mm VC diameter and a very healthy Xvar of 11mm. It should outperform all drivers you mentioned before and seems to be similar in performance to a RCF L15P200AK.
Link 1 for the Ande LB1560
Link 2 for the Ande LB1560
Your HornResp of post#1578 looks like a different design with an (internal) system volume of 595 Litre. That’s probably more than twice the volume of your actual build cab. You can check this yourself in the "schematic Diagram" page in the Window menu of HornResp.
I can't judge the adjustments you made since I don't know the changes exactly. Based on the picture it seems you used 18mm plywood and (9mm?) braces. That's a nice improvement
. It also means it's slightly smaller in volume than an original SS15, when made from one sheet. Normally small adjustments like that have no significant influence on the functioning/performance. Therefore I see no problem in using the original SS15 Hornresp inputs to model any driver. BTW in your country the Ande LB1560 driver is available for about AU $199. It sims very well in the SS15, has a strong motor, 100mm VC diameter and a very healthy Xvar of 11mm. It should outperform all drivers you mentioned before and seems to be similar in performance to a RCF L15P200AK.
Link 1 for the Ande LB1560
Link 2 for the Ande LB1560
ive just had a play with hornresp, using the JB1500N, Kappa and the Ande,
based on Djim post 1579 hornresp horn specs, the Ande has the fullest curve from 50-100 with the highest peak at 100. the JB is next, only slightly less than the Ande, and then the Kappa actually dips pretty bad in comparison at 60-80.
now, this thing with this is that in reality, we're talking maybe 1-2 db at this frequency. so it probably wouldnt be massively noticeable, unless they were next to each other in a setup.
so based purely on two things, #1: brand (i just have an automatic attraction to the JBL product for some reason) and #2 price $169 is more attractive than $214. i know its not much, but between three of them, the difference starts growing. ($120 can nearly buy me a 4th JBL)
also, knowing i had cheap crap in there before, ill be sure to post up some feedback to the forums on my opinion of the JBL speakers.
and, one more thing. ill have to go back and check my math, but im sure i used the actual dimensions on my cabs to get the hornresp specs on my sims. so, again. ill post back with comment on what i did. but its definatley way different to the sim Djim posted. I must admit though, in reality, they sound more like my response graph than what Djims sim would suggest.
based on Djim post 1579 hornresp horn specs, the Ande has the fullest curve from 50-100 with the highest peak at 100. the JB is next, only slightly less than the Ande, and then the Kappa actually dips pretty bad in comparison at 60-80.
now, this thing with this is that in reality, we're talking maybe 1-2 db at this frequency. so it probably wouldnt be massively noticeable, unless they were next to each other in a setup.
so based purely on two things, #1: brand (i just have an automatic attraction to the JBL product for some reason) and #2 price $169 is more attractive than $214. i know its not much, but between three of them, the difference starts growing. ($120 can nearly buy me a 4th JBL)
also, knowing i had cheap crap in there before, ill be sure to post up some feedback to the forums on my opinion of the JBL speakers.
and, one more thing. ill have to go back and check my math, but im sure i used the actual dimensions on my cabs to get the hornresp specs on my sims. so, again. ill post back with comment on what i did. but its definatley way different to the sim Djim posted. I must admit though, in reality, they sound more like my response graph than what Djims sim would suggest.