Hey art, I know you are still working on getting hornresp up and running, so I did a quick compare of your dual lab12 posted on soundforums.net vs the ss15. Dual lab runs out of xmax in 40v(50-60hz), ss15 at 63v(40hz).
Yea, the dual lab smokes the ss15 below 40hz, ss15 smokes the dual lab 50hz on up. With that whole 'iron law' thing, you can have any 2, loud, low, small.
thanks for your dual lab design.
Yea, the dual lab smokes the ss15 below 40hz, ss15 smokes the dual lab 50hz on up. With that whole 'iron law' thing, you can have any 2, loud, low, small.
thanks for your dual lab design.
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I've got to take a closer look at that design. The HornResp prediction for output does not match the Bassbox prediction. OTOH, HornResp does not include the effect of losses in its model, so that may account for the "hump" at the lower end of the FR prediction for the Lab12x2.
Another thing to consider here is that, to provide the same SPL output level in its passband, how much input power is required for each design?
not sure what you are asking? xmax limited within the passband, is xmax limited. The graph I did was xmax limited.
As to the hump, art measured the exact same hump, however he only measured a 3db drop instead of 5db drop in the 80-100hz range vs 40hz. My 'assumption' is that some measured distortion could account for a db or two add in that range, so the 3db drop is very realistic. (hornresp would obviously not account for distortion) At least it's nothing I'd get too worked up over.
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Let's put it another way: to produce 120dB in its passband, how much input voltage do you have to provide to each system, and what input power does this represent?
well since the response curves are vastly different, you'd have to just take an arbitrary frequency and ask at what PE does each cabinet produce X amount of output.
sounds muddy to me, not sure what that proves. However hornresp lets you play with those numbers to your hearts content.
The dual 12 does dub and d&b well (aka below 40hz, although can't quite get to 28hz) the ss15 does 40hz on up well. Both boxes designed for totally different tasks -- and each accomplishes it's task. Comparing the two is difficult at best.
This is why I won't test a ported cabinet for art, until he provides the porting information. The 3015lf will have a similar hump in response in a 220 liter cabinet... A plate on the ss15 to make it a ported cabinet eliminates all other variables except the port, and for that, art must be comfortable in his choice.
The best thing I could think of to show power differences is either xmax/pe limited or 1watt. Here's a chart of 1 watt.
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Hmm... if that simulation graph is close to what's actually achieved, it shows that the SS15 would put a proper spanking on the LAB12x2 for most music. It will cost less and require a lot less power for the same output level. I know which one I'd choose
. If I REALLY wanted that extra output down low, perhaps adding a series-tuned 6th order BP with the same LAB12 might work (a quick model test suggests it may be possible to do a 25-55Hz one with 5dB of gain in a 5 cu.ft. (net) box). Theoretically get the best of both worlds. I'm not sure how well such a cabinet would do in a pro audio environment though - I suspect that there's good reason why you don't see many 6th order BP systems used in pro audio
.- I suspect that there's good reason why you don't see many 6th order BP systems used in pro audio
you mean bose isn't pro audio????
Hey dave, a dual lab12 would be a great 'house party' sub !! If you build it, I'd be great to have another set of measurements. Somehow I think a PPSL would be a great option for a pair of lab12's as well. maybe someone will chime in with a dual lab12 ppsl.
Adam, all I found in 30 seconds of looking was this pic with notes on my tops: beta 12a-2, 1.9khz crossover 12db/oct with 16 ohm selenium 220 and dayton 12" conical waveguide with dayton 15x22.5 grill.
hope that's enough details.
Adam, all I found in 30 seconds of looking was this pic with notes on my tops: beta 12a-2, 1.9khz crossover 12db/oct with 16 ohm selenium 220 and dayton 12" conical waveguide with dayton 15x22.5 grill.
hope that's enough details.
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You will like the LF of the WS Lab 2x12", but miss the upper bang the SS15 gives.
The distortion is so low as it is I think that the extra volume lost to the slot would make the cabinet larger with little positive benefit.
Wayne Parnham (sp?) had a long and ongoing "discussion" with Tom Danley regarding that subject, and heat sinks...
After several pseudonyms mirroring his opinions from the same IP showed up, the "discussions " finally concluded.
From the looks of his sub shootout results (2007?) four of the WS 2x12" would fit in the same space as Parnham's Pi Lab sub, and eat it for lunch in the bottom end. Four work out to about 100 dB one watt one meter, but can take full power (sine wave) to 33 Hz or so.
I should look that up, IIRC his distortion specs were no better than the WS 2x12.
Costs more in drivers, but can be split up, allowing for steering, multiple gigs and what not.
One other thought, ever tried the Peavey Low Rider 15? They work well in big tapped horns.
33.9 Hz FS compared to 43.65 Hz for the 3015LF, might get the SS15 flat to 40 Hz for about the same $. Probably require a longer horn, and be less efficient, nevermind...
Hey, the efficiency of that LAB12 gave me an idea. Have you looked at the DCON12 from SSA Audio? It's a 12" driver with an efficiency of 89dB, which is pretty high for a car audio subwoofer, but might be a good match for a multiple-12 pro audio box that needs to reach low. A dual sub built with this would have a net 4 ohm impedance (series-parallel wiring), but at the price of this driver I would be tempted to go with 3, for a 6 ohm impedance.
See SSA Shop - SSA Dcon 12D4 subwoofer300rms for more details.
The only thing missing from their t/s parameters is the Le rating, unfortunately, but at only $125 a pop, they might be worth a test or two.
From it's specs it looks like it could do very well, more Xmax and Bl, but less power handling. The higher Fs of 28 vs 22 would also make it a more viable choice for a PA tapped horn, and the voice coil options are good too.
Having tested the Lab 12 with full power sine waves, I know it handles the power and has very low distortion. Until I test production units, I have no real opinion, other than the obvious things the TS parameters point to.
I know Eminence is very good with warranty repair, I have no knowledge of DCON other than it does kill mice and rats quite well
Funnily enough, I couldn't come up with a TH model for that driver that I was really happy with. I'll have to try again.
I know Eminence is very good with warranty repair, I have no knowledge of DCON other than it does kill mice and rats quite well
The driver's received good reviews in the car audio world, and that world can be quite brutal on bass drivers too
. I've been itching to try out a pair - may actually do so later this year.
Funnily enough, I couldn't come up with a TH model for that driver that I was really happy with. I'll have to try again.
The driver's received good reviews in the car audio world, and that world can be quite brutal on bass drivers too
Quick guess, will need around 133 or more inches of length to get it to work well in a TH. For home or install, towers are fine and don't take up much floor space, but a horn that long is big and heavy, multiple units of BR start to look a lot better if you have to haul the stuff.
I didn't mean to diss the DCON, just don't keep up much with car audio.