Single sheet TH challenge

It depends on the design. I usually end up with a fairly even balance between Pmax and Xmax within the passband. Although I usually like to stay a bit below Pmax just to be safe with a robust design.
I always put limiters in place any way (remember to put it at both before and after crossover)

If you tune low you will en up with Xmax hitting the wall way early.
If you tune high Pmax will usually be the limiting factor, although most drivers end up having bad frequency response at that point.
 
Wow, those numbers really put things in perspective!
Now i got to ask, in the SS15, what will be the SPL "limiter"? Will it be power to the driver, XMAX or something else to concider? I think i have read somewhere that PE was a factor in this, but i don't know what that is?

In this design it's all about your high pass filter.... If you run a 40hz high pass filter you are good up through 500 watts, which is the power rating (PE) of the driver.

If you don't have any dsp, you need something like a behringer dcx2496. If you don't have dsp or amp, crown xti amps get you everything you need.

My personal pa these days is a pair of HS12 tops, a pair of SS15 subs, an A&H zed14, and an xti1000 amp. The really great thing about that amp is you have high pass, low pass, crossover, eq, limiter, delay, amp... all in one package. Yea an xti2000 would be a better match, but it's more money. You can get refurb full 3 year no fault warranty xti1000's for $350.. That's the best bargain out there.

With the zed14 and 2 pole speakons, it's literally a single xlr cable in from the mixer, and a single speaker cable out of the amp, daisy chained to both tops and both subs. (channel 1 is tops, channel 2 is subs) It's as simple of a setup as possible.

Regardless, the best settings I've found for the SS15 are 40hz butterworth 48db/oct high pass, 95hz Linkwitz-Riley 24db/oct low pass, with tops set to 95hz 24db/oct Linkwitz-Riley high pass.
 
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Sounds nice to me, thank you :)
Now, if I got it right, then it will mean this cab theoreticly will reach 132dB with 500W input (calculated from a sensitivity of 105dB)? If i am right, will this be the RMS SPL or the Peak value?

Have you tried to low-pass them at a higher freq, like 120Hz? And how does it behave that far up?

I have already planned on buying the dcx2496 after reading a lot of greats words about it. I have earlier owned a dbx PA, but as i understand it, the Behringer is actually better when it comes to sound quality and ease of use.

The HS12, is there any info on that box? I guess it your own design too.

Hope you are okay with all my questions, I just find this to be very interesting :)
 
Sounds nice to me, thank you :)
Now, if I got it right, then it will mean this cab theoreticly will reach 132dB with 500W input (calculated from a sensitivity of 105dB)? If i am right, will this be the RMS SPL or the Peak value?

Have you tried to low-pass them at a higher freq, like 120Hz? And how does it behave that far up?

I have already planned on buying the dcx2496 after reading a lot of greats words about it. I have earlier owned a dbx PA, but as i understand it, the Behringer is actually better when it comes to sound quality and ease of use.

The HS12, is there any info on that box? I guess it your own design too.

Hope you are okay with all my questions, I just find this to be very interesting :)

This design is very well behaved up to 200hz. (unlike many of my other designs.....) There is a sharp dip in response from 170-172hz, but other than that it's good.

I've never run it up to 132, however I've tested sine waves @ 125db at 100watts/1meter, and with music was regularly bumping 129. I personally think power compression would prevent you from getting to 132, but real world, long term sustained 129-130 is very doable. If you need more, build more cabinets.

One thing you may not have gotten from the posts on this is that if you want flat to 40hz, you need to run pairs or more. Single cabinet is a little weak in the 40hz department.

have fun.
 
I just finished my first build of 2 of these boxes and boy do they rock!!! I run a pair with a QSC 2402 Bridged Mono and I have a Driverack PA, and this is probably where I need to set it up correctly. I adjust the volume knob on the 2402 to about 3 O'clock on the dial.... I make sure the Mixer goes up to 0 DB on the output (Pioneer DJM 5000) and They feel and sound great!!!

I tried one out at first with the Amp in Stereo and thought... MM, that's ok I guess... then I flipped the amp to Bridged Mono and plugged in the second box, I adjusted the crossover to 0 DB, pumped up the volume and stood right in front of them... I've never felt any other single or double 15" speaker move air like these...

and the speakers i'm using....

JBL 265H-1 LF Driver, JBL 265H-1 Low Frequency Driver, JBL 265H-1, JBL MRX515M Replacement Driver

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Fs=39hz
Qts=.32
Qms=3.7
Qes=.35
Vas=170L
Pe=350
Re=5.4
X-max=6.5mm

I wll probably build 2 more boxes and get rid of my Dual 18" Yamaha's....
 
fr_297_size1024.jpg

fr_298_size1024.jpg

Hopefully they aren't too big to post..
 
fhperez:

first, congrats -- you have good looking cabinets.

I know I just mentioned to chaps that you need to run pairs to get flat to 40hz performance, and your experience with 1 backs that up.

The 3015lf gives a bit more low end, and has another 3mm of xmax vs the driver you chose, but other than that -- good choice in drivers.

What options do you have set in your driverack for high pass and low pass?
 
I did see the Hornresp graphs and saw that the 3015lf was a bit louder throughout the whole 40-100hz range...

I have them set up close to what how you specified...

Driverack is set to 40hz@BS24 @ 0db up to 100hz@LR24 and the mains are at 100hz@LR24

Like I mentioned I will be doing 2 more of these so I will get the 3015's this time and probably end up running 4 3015's in the long run.

These are for DJ application, but since I tend to run some bigger parties at times, I feel I need the extra 2 speakers...

I'm debating on whether I need to put pole holes on them and set up the ev's on top of each one and each pair of subs/mains on each side of me... or run them as I have them pictured and run the EV's wider on their stands... What would you recommend?

If I do put pole, the EV's line up perfeclty flat to the front if I put the pole mount on the front side of the 8x21" board...Do you see any problem with putting the pole hole there? I see that TDA likes to run his subs "Laying on their sides" should I do that? I know it's a matter of preference but what do you suggest? And obviously the options are limitless... I just want to drill the pole mount hole once and be done with it, always run them like that...
 
I did see the Hornresp graphs and saw that the 3015lf was a bit louder throughout the whole 40-100hz range...

I have them set up close to what how you specified...

Driverack is set to 40hz@BS24 @ 0db up to 100hz@LR24 and the mains are at 100hz@LR24

Like I mentioned I will be doing 2 more of these so I will get the 3015's this time and probably end up running 4 3015's in the long run.

These are for DJ application, but since I tend to run some bigger parties at times, I feel I need the extra 2 speakers...

I'm debating on whether I need to put pole holes on them and set up the ev's on top of each one and each pair of subs/mains on each side of me... or run them as I have them pictured and run the EV's wider on their stands... What would you recommend?

If I do put pole, the EV's line up perfeclty flat to the front if I put the pole mount on the front side of the 8x21" board...Do you see any problem with putting the pole hole there? I see that TDA likes to run his subs "Laying on their sides" should I do that? I know it's a matter of preference but what do you suggest? And obviously the options are limitless... I just want to drill the pole mount hole once and be done with it, always run them like that...

Well... not sure I can advise you on this one... but here's some info.

1. These things are directional, you have to be careful where you point them, and they have a different pattern on their sides vs standing up. (they actually have a wider pattern on their sides, which is how I typically run them)

2. 'typically' subs are omnidirectional, and not directional -- splitting subs is a big no-no and having them on each side under the tops causes cancellations, etc.... TH's aren't typical in this respect, so those rules don't exactly apply.

3. I see no issue on having a pair of subs per side with a top on a pole, assuming it works with your room, etc... I've run my subs centered in front of a stage with tops spread wide and angled in and been very happy. I've also set up in a corner, centered subs with tops close and angled out and been happy. Outdoors I've set subs upright and set tops over subs on each side and been happy. I think various rooms will work better one way vs the other -- give yourself flexibility, one setup doesn't always work well everywhere.

4. I try and put pole mounts, handles, etc... where there is more than just a 1/2" of ply to connect to. (like connecting to one of the interior panels) I don't see an issue with the location you propose.
 
I went out and bought the Texture Spray Gun, $20 bux and a galon of Behr Ultra Premium Paint... Are there any special instructions or do I just pour the paint int o the gun and start spraying?

Here's what I do:

You can adjust the knob at the back to determine how much paint / how big the blobs of paint are. The knob and the pressure allow you to adjust what kind of finish you are going to put down.

Personally I don't adjust the knob, I adjust the paint texture with how far down I pull handle.

I start with a fine orange peel texture to cover. I use about 60psi and light pressure on the handle, don't make it move, just pressure. Once the entire cabinet is covered, you'll want to add some light texture. I usually accomplish this with light quick pull and release swipes. Once done, and there is a reasonable amount of paint coverage (wood grain should be starting to disappear) with some texture, then it's time to do the rough texture. Stand back at least 3 feet (I usually stand about 4-5) and do a full pull and immediate release -- this will put down large texture blobs of paint. move and repeat until you have blobs all over the cabinet. You obviously don't want runs, and when you first see it, the blobs will look a little weird to you. Once it dries it has that nice pa texture look. Abrasions hit the top of the texture, and not the bottom of the texture -- so a scratch doesn't show.

Here's a close up of behr applied in this manner.

Practice on a scrap piece of board FIRST.... I also use PL wood filler. any holes or joint lines show up big time if not prepped well. I always do this outside, or at the least with a big tarp down, this is not a neat process.
 

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fhperez:
I would love to hear how you think your new boxes performed this weekend?

I'm just about ready to start building myself. Just need to go shopping for materials :)

All I can say is... WOW!

One is good, two, placed together in the center of the room are WOW!

Friday's event was 120 people, and that is the one pictured above, good low bass, decent punch...

Saturday, I had an event with 300 people at a hall that is approximately 9,000-11,000 Square feet... I had my amp at full blast (Yamaha P7000s) The level on the amp was far from clipping, it got to the light right before clipping but never into the red... The Vol on my mixer was the same, at about 0 to -2db... Every once it a while it would clip changing from one song to the next, but I would adjust it...

As you can see from the picture, I had 4 EV ZX5's with two QSC 2402, Bridged Mono... Full Blast... These EV's are LOUD!!! and the 2 subs kept up real well... The bass was amazing! Very clean and low...

A fellow DJ friend of mine was on the room across the hall from us and he said it sounded good over there too...

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I think the biggest thing that comes to mind is actually understanding what Jbell talks about, the difference between clean bass and distorted bass...

I loved them, I think I will be building two more, selling my Yamaha dual 18's...

Another observation, these need rubber feet on the bottom, I kept having to go over to them and re-adjusting them, the bass was vibrating too much that the cabinets actually walked away from each other and from the dance floor... towards the end of the night I actually clamped them together so if they did move, they would at least move together... Another observation, these are LIGHT!!

I loved them!!!

BTW: JBell Yes that is a 10v with Snow Leopard... :) I love the DIY, if you know of the perfect (full sized pc) that I can run Snow Leopard and has a good resolution (WUXGA) and a great video card, I'm all ears... I'm looking to upgrade my DJing PC (Pentium 4 @ 3.0 GHZ .... OLD) with something like a 2.4 ghz core 2 duo or core 2 quad (i series of intels are problematic with Rane Serato).
 
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fhperez:

Thanks for the update.

Yes these are light. I do installs, and handling a sub 30' in the air makes a person think twice about every pound of weight. I never want to install a heavy weight sub again. I had to go see the chi-o and have my back cracked after my last 150lb sub installation. 42lbs for a sheet of auroco, 7lbs for a 3015lf plus paint and hardware. Basically a 50lb sub. The entire point of this thread for 'single sheet' was primarily due to weight and simple design. I needed a lightweight design I could kick out in part of a day.

Yes, they can walk. The 'bottom' as you have them pictured only has a single brace, which is where the walking is coming from. More bracing would eliminate some cabinet flex and some walking, but then I designed this as an install sub. More bracing = less spl and more weight in my experience, and I am more than willing to allow a 'little' cabinet flex. I would personally bring a small carpet with rubber backing instead of rubber feet. Feet tend to get torn off of a cabinet.

2 tops per sub??? That is blasphemy to many people. There are those who advocate at minimum 2 subs per top. 2 of the SS15's keeping up with 4 EV's at war volume is a pretty good testament to this design. I will repeat scott's comment about TH's. "They bloom at war volume, reflex boxes wilt."

How did the texture gun work out? Couldn't tell much about the finish from your posted pics.

On the osx on 'other' hardware sites, they have listed which motherboards are fully compatible and which aren't. If you want a full size box, start with the motherboard and put it in whatever case you want. The 10v is really a nice little osx machine.... that's why I recognized it ;)

Thanks again for the update -- I really like this design. It's only real downfall is it's a little short in the 40hz department in single cabinets. To hear your dj friend say it was 'loud and low' from across the hall when running pairs made me smile.
 
I love the weight... You can't tell but these do not have their handles yet... Even then they were easy to handle...

I'm good with the cabinet flex, I will try the carpet or something similar..

Here's an observation that seems to make sense, somewhat..... Room empty, ev's sounded way louder and more powerful than the 2 subs alone... I did feel I needed 2 more subs, which is exactly what I told my friend Jaime, I told him I felt I really needed 2 more subs, for that hall... He said they sounded great over there... I was surprised to hear that... but like you say, that put a smile on my face...

When the dance floor was full (about 100-150 people) I walked to the other side of the dance floor to hear how everything sounded...

I feel the EV's Lost a little umph but, surprisingly I felt the subs gained some... I could feel the bass through all those people dancing... It may have been the song, it may have been me... but I was surprised...

I mean, these are 4 EV's running at approximately 1,200 watts a piece with 2" compression drivers on them!!!

Also if it helps, I was DJ full volume from about 9 PM until 1 AM... with the usual wedding breaks, bouquet toss, garter toss, dollar dance (80% volume)... etc...

The gun worked great... Believe it or not, when it was still somewhat wet, it started drizzling.... so the paint got wet, I'm giving it some time then I'm going to refinish them... But painting was pretty simple and straight foreword...