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Old 8th February 2011, 07:27 PM   #381
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Hey art, I know you are still working on getting hornresp up and running, so I did a quick compare of your dual lab12 posted on soundforums.net vs the ss15. Dual lab runs out of xmax in 40v(50-60hz), ss15 at 63v(40hz).

Yea, the dual lab smokes the ss15 below 40hz, ss15 smokes the dual lab 50hz on up. With that whole 'iron law' thing, you can have any 2, loud, low, small.

thanks for your dual lab design.
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Old 8th February 2011, 08:17 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by jbell View Post
Hey art, I know you are still working on getting hornresp up and running, so I did a quick compare of your dual lab12 posted on soundforums.net vs the ss15. Dual lab runs out of xmax in 40v(50-60hz), ss15 at 63v(40hz).

Yea, the dual lab smokes the ss15 below 40hz, ss15 smokes the dual lab 50hz on up. With that whole 'iron law' thing, you can have any 2, loud, low, small.

thanks for your dual lab design.
I've got to take a closer look at that design. The HornResp prediction for output does not match the Bassbox prediction. OTOH, HornResp does not include the effect of losses in its model, so that may account for the "hump" at the lower end of the FR prediction for the Lab12x2.

Another thing to consider here is that, to provide the same SPL output level in its passband, how much input power is required for each design?
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Old 8th February 2011, 08:46 PM   #383
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
Another thing to consider here is that, to provide the same SPL output level in its passband, how much input power is required for each design?
not sure what you are asking? xmax limited within the passband, is xmax limited. The graph I did was xmax limited.

As to the hump, art measured the exact same hump, however he only measured a 3db drop instead of 5db drop in the 80-100hz range vs 40hz. My 'assumption' is that some measured distortion could account for a db or two add in that range, so the 3db drop is very realistic. (hornresp would obviously not account for distortion) At least it's nothing I'd get too worked up over.
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Last edited by jbell; 8th February 2011 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 8th February 2011, 09:21 PM   #384
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not sure what you are asking? xmax limited within the passband, is xmax limited. The graph I did was xmax limited.
Let's put it another way: to produce 120dB in its passband, how much input voltage do you have to provide to each system, and what input power does this represent?
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Old 8th February 2011, 09:26 PM   #385
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
Let's put it another way: to produce 120dB in its passband, how much input voltage do you have to provide to each system, and what input power does this represent?
well since the response curves are vastly different, you'd have to just take an arbitrary frequency and ask at what PE does each cabinet produce X amount of output.

sounds muddy to me, not sure what that proves. However hornresp lets you play with those numbers to your hearts content.

The dual 12 does dub and d&b well (aka below 40hz, although can't quite get to 28hz) the ss15 does 40hz on up well. Both boxes designed for totally different tasks -- and each accomplishes it's task. Comparing the two is difficult at best.

This is why I won't test a ported cabinet for art, until he provides the porting information. The 3015lf will have a similar hump in response in a 220 liter cabinet... A plate on the ss15 to make it a ported cabinet eliminates all other variables except the port, and for that, art must be comfortable in his choice.

The best thing I could think of to show power differences is either xmax/pe limited or 1watt. Here's a chart of 1 watt.
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Last edited by jbell; 8th February 2011 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 8th February 2011, 09:46 PM   #386
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I've got two spare lab 12 drivers and two completed ss15. I might try knocking up that dual lab box and have a listen.
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Old 8th February 2011, 10:16 PM   #387
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The best thing I could think of to show power differences is either xmax/pe limited or 1watt. Here's a chart of 1 watt.
Hmm... if that simulation graph is close to what's actually achieved, it shows that the SS15 would put a proper spanking on the LAB12x2 for most music. It will cost less and require a lot less power for the same output level. I know which one I'd choose .

If I REALLY wanted that extra output down low, perhaps adding a series-tuned 6th order BP with the same LAB12 might work (a quick model test suggests it may be possible to do a 25-55Hz one with 5dB of gain in a 5 cu.ft. (net) box). Theoretically get the best of both worlds. I'm not sure how well such a cabinet would do in a pro audio environment though - I suspect that there's good reason why you don't see many 6th order BP systems used in pro audio .
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Old 8th February 2011, 10:34 PM   #388
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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- I suspect that there's good reason why you don't see many 6th order BP systems used in pro audio .
you mean bose isn't pro audio????
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Old 8th February 2011, 10:34 PM   #389
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Hey Jim,

Do you have any more pics of a half completed/completed HS12 top? I have only the single photo on page 21 of this thread to go by...

thanks!
Adam
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Old 8th February 2011, 10:41 PM   #390
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you mean bose isn't pro audio????
LOL - I'm not going to touch that one
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