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Old 12th October 2011, 03:36 AM   #1091
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
Why? My brother is looking for new subs for the night-club he manages. He's leaning towards 4 of those EVs. I've been trying to convince him that building the subs may produce better results (my cousin, who owns the club, is great at joinery, so building a subwoofer box should not be that great a challenge).
most of what I run into is single 18 jbl, or dual 18 bagend. (for church's that actually have subs)

A TH eats their lunch for praise band.... Not much of an exact comparison, and I know it's apples and oranges.

A 45hz TH vs a bagend elf... yea, not a good comparison.

This is one of those things that you actually have to do it yourself to believe it, trying to convince someone usually doesn't work....

That's where the singlesheet thing works and makes believers. Buy a $100 kappa pro 15lf2, a $30 sheet of ply and a tube of pl.

Get out the deck screws and make something ugly... and then crank it up. The sound sells itself. Then once convinced, you can then figure out your extension and spl goals, and choose the appropriate design. (put it in the night club and change the direction of the speaker, and watch the faces as the bass 'moves'..... that's priceless)

Surely your brother trusts you enough to do an ugly box just to see?

Last edited by jbell; 12th October 2011 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 12th October 2011, 03:53 AM   #1092
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How about a big TH with dual 15s?

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Old 12th October 2011, 04:13 AM   #1093
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djk howmany liters is that?
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Old 12th October 2011, 04:15 AM   #1094
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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should the spacing be double for the taps??? The numbers are for one driver not two...
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Old 12th October 2011, 04:46 AM   #1095
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Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post
After loooking at the data sheet for the MTL-1 I'm sure the plot is for just one. I bet the response fills in as you line them up side by side. Anyone have drawings and specs for the drivers? It shouldn't be very dificult to DIY a better clone...

http://electro-voice.com/sitefiles/downloads/534861.pdf
Ehh....for 2 18's stuffed into a horn sub that is pretty much the same external dimms as my single 18 loaded TH-18 sub, I don't think you're going to get very deep bass. Path length must not be very much at all.... its -10db at 46hz....at 35hz it must be down a lot!

I'm pretty sure the Dynacord Cobra's use the same driver that is in the MTL boxes....I've heard the Dynacords on numerous occasions...not bad at all!

Last edited by m R g S r; 12th October 2011 at 04:48 AM.
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Old 12th October 2011, 04:56 AM   #1096
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Surely your brother trusts you enough to do an ugly box just to see?
LOL - I'm tempted to just build one and show him .

Pity about the current cost of the Kappalite though.

The 18" TH design does look interesting though, particularly with its 35 Hz extension. No actual measurements posted yet, unfortunately.

I'd tell you he was impressed with the little DFD'd POC#2 with the 12" Dayton pro audio driver. It was able to keep up quite easily with one of the CV 15" 3-ways I'm fixing for him. Actually had to turn the gain down a notch.

However, when thinking of dropping major $$ on a club system, it is an uphill battle to convince them to consider DIY instead, particularly when some of the "DIY" examples here have been so bad...

Last edited by Brian Steele; 12th October 2011 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 12th October 2011, 05:09 AM   #1097
NEO Dan is offline NEO Dan  United States
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Originally Posted by m R g S r View Post
Ehh....for 2 18's stuffed into a horn sub that is pretty much the same external dimms as my single 18 loaded TH-18 sub, I don't think you're going to get very deep bass. Path length must not be very much at all.... its -10db at 46hz....at 35hz it must be down a lot!

I'm pretty sure the Dynacord Cobra's use the same driver that is in the MTL boxes....I've heard the Dynacords on numerous occasions...not bad at all!
Your box has a mouth ~1/3 the size, 4 of the MTL boxes coupled should get pretty low. Think of them as some sort of ~30hz array of 8 cubo 18" boxes.

How about those comparitive measurements of your stuff - earn the right to talk some smack... :
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Old 12th October 2011, 05:22 AM   #1098
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"The numbers are for one driver not two... "

I was lazy, I just created one driver with the same parameters as two.

I also ran it in Hornresp with two drivers, but with S3=3400 and S4=3600. It's about 700L (about the size of a LAB 12), and 105dB/2.83V/35hz. You could build it as a pair of singles and stack them.

If you can make it bigger than a LAB 12 you can pick up another 3dB:

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Old 12th October 2011, 05:32 AM   #1099
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This one is much smaller (410L or two 205L), 3dB down around 37hz, 105dB around 50hz.

{
a1 = 1000e-4; |Area at throat (cm^2)
a2 = 1700e-4; |Area at rear of driver (cm^2)
a3 = 2200e-4; |Area at front of driver (cm^2)
a4 = 2400e-4; |Area at mouth (cm^2)
l1 = 18e-2; |Distance from throat to rear of driver (cm)
l2 = 175e-2; |Line distance from rear of driver to front of driver (cm)
l3 = 20e-2; |Distance from front of driver to mouth (cm)
Sd=1745cm2
fs=42Hz
Qes=0.54
Qms=6.73
Vas=232L
Re=2.52ohm
Le=2.49mH

I like the 4015, they were only about $140 each the last time I bought a dozen.
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Last edited by djk; 12th October 2011 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 12th October 2011, 01:04 PM   #1100
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
However, when thinking of dropping major $$ on a club system, it is an uphill battle to convince them to consider DIY instead, particularly when some of the "DIY" examples here have been so bad...
who's talking major $$ ?? that's kinda the DIY point.

a pair of powered qsc K12's over a quad of ss15's with a single crown or qsc amp w/crossover would run $2500-$3000.

I know my brother did a bar with all EV... !@#$ was that place loud. To be perfectly honest, it sucked. It was so loud everywhere, that you couldn't tell what the sound system sounded like.

The TH's that give you some bass directionality, coupled with a reasonable top with good pattern allows you to have club level in one place, and still be able to talk elsewhere... THAT is the key to a club system.
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