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Old 9th July 2010, 10:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by badman View Post
Um, not really. Most mastering is done louder than a typical home listening session. Unless you match listening level to recording level, you must boost the treble and bass to get perceptively equal tonal balance.
I doubt the difference between the mastering level and his maximum SPL at listening seat will be significant. And what will he do then when the musical content goes quiet? You can't assume he's going to listen to super-compressed club music.

EDIT: Only bass needs to be adjusted anyway. The relative treble sensitivity stays pretty much the same.
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Old 9th July 2010, 11:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by 454Casull View Post
Speak more directly, please.
You said the artist does the adjustment. So I assume you allow the artist into your home where he or she adjusts the volume control.

Is that right?

Or do they control the loudness (and the equal-loudness contours) you experience at home by telepathy?

BTW, there is no way to get Carnegie Hall or anybody's control room a living room or to sound much like. Of course in a few trivial ways you CAN duplicate the same frequencies, tunes, etc.

Yeah, they told Edison his cylinders sounded exactly like the real singer as if they were singing in the room. I guess they recognized the singers were being reproduced in the same language as they originally recorded in. Barely.
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Old 12th July 2010, 05:00 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
You said the artist does the adjustment. So I assume you allow the artist into your home where he or she adjusts the volume control.

Is that right?
No, I intended to say that the artist controls the frequency response of their musical performance so as to achieve the desired overall response. Changing this (boosting the bass to make it louder at lower levels) is difficult to do accurately and will probably hurt rather than help.

I also believe that he is under the impression that as overall SPL goes up, you need relatively more bass to "keep up" with the mids and treble. Actually, it's the opposite - at lower SPLs, the ear is much more sensitive to mids and treble, and the disparity decreases as SPL goes up.

Last edited by 454Casull; 12th July 2010 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 13th July 2010, 01:50 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by 454Casull View Post
No, I intended to say that the artist controls the frequency response of their musical performance so as to achieve the desired overall response. Changing this (boosting the bass to make it louder at lower levels) is difficult to do accurately and will probably hurt rather than help.

I also believe that he is under the impression that as overall SPL goes up, you need relatively more bass to "keep up" with the mids and treble. Actually, it's the opposite - at lower SPLs, the ear is much more sensitive to mids and treble, and the disparity decreases as SPL goes up.
Not possible to make the sound of The Met in your living room except as a partial replica. Headphones come closer, I suppose. And there are folks who are ga-ga over headphone binaural with Neumann-heads.

The singer's tonal balance changes with level in your living room - not to a mic but to your hearing, whether you try to intervene with an act of will or not.

I can't say if our brains or aesthetic sense is bothered by this phenomenon or if the sound seems anomalous but the phenomenon IS there... unless you think equal loudness curves are phony. I don't know any audiophile who cranks up the bass when playing softly - let alone uses the ill-conceived "loudness" controls. Maybe they should?

When you look around in the dark of night and see no colors (no kidding), do you say "that ten dollar bill looks gray"? When you see your cousin down the street do your say "golly, Jack is only two inches tall"? When you play organ music softly do you say, "ummm, no pedals"? Maybe not, but you sure don't hear them either.

Footnote: in the trade, we call that "constancy" something your brain just has to do to keep the same thing invariant.
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Last edited by bentoronto; 13th July 2010 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 14th July 2010, 04:14 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
I can't say if our brains or aesthetic sense is bothered by this phenomenon or if the sound seems anomalous but the phenomenon IS there... unless you think equal loudness curves are phony. I don't know any audiophile who cranks up the bass when playing softly - let alone uses the ill-conceived "loudness" controls. Maybe they should?
I don't think the equal loudness curves are phony. I do think it is a bad idea to try to manipulate frequency response to "set" an arbitrary frequency sensitivity for any given SPL - e.g. to kill the bass as the SPL goes up or vice versa, depending on what your set point is.
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Old 14th July 2010, 01:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 454Casull View Post
I don't think the equal loudness curves are phony. I do think it is a bad idea to try to manipulate frequency response to "set" an arbitrary frequency sensitivity for any given SPL - e.g. to kill the bass as the SPL goes up or vice versa, depending on what your set point is.
Why do you think it is a bad idea?
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Old 14th July 2010, 11:57 PM   #27
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Why do you think it is a bad idea?
Because I don't think it can be done.
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Old 15th July 2010, 01:46 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by 454Casull View Post
Because I don't think it can be done.
Your ears, your choice, you do it.

I have never successfully set my woofer input except by ear. Do you?

As I said earlier, it sounds pretty obvious to me when playing softly that the Fletcher-Munson phenomenon is acting, but like everybody else, I don't fuss with the bass with every change in level.


With my system I have a whole lot of things electric controls I can diddle with to influence the woofing: amps, variable e-crossover, pre-amp with choice of turnover frequency, LF filters....
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Last edited by bentoronto; 15th July 2010 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 15th July 2010, 06:14 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
Your ears, your choice, you do it.

I have never successfully set my woofer input except by ear. Do you?
I believe that what you are talking about is completely different from what I am talking about. I am speaking of dynamic frequency response modulation based on instantaneous loudness levels (however you determine that), not just static frequency response tailoring... why would I care what somebody does with their tone?
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Old 15th July 2010, 08:42 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by 454Casull View Post
I believe that what you are talking about is completely different from what I am talking about. I am speaking of dynamic frequency response modulation based on instantaneous loudness levels (however you determine that), not just static frequency response tailoring... why would I care what somebody does with their tone?
Google was no help to me with "dynamic frequency response modulation." Can you explain that, please.
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