Night of The Living Bassheads - Page 6 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Subwoofers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd July 2010, 04:51 AM   #51
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
And this thing shakes the entire house.

Sweeeeeet
Quote:
Anyways, unless you seriously want to do structural damage, the SDX10 should work pretty darn well.
You're probably right - especially if I team a dual SDX10 horn with my existing Tang Band 8"x12" horn. I've already seen 120dB peaks at listening position from that big boy... now I want to further my understanding of tapped horns by building something that outclasses the TB horn while being smaller at the same time. Hornresp says the SDX is my woofer to do that with. Same corner frequency, more SPL, 110 liters less space, with only a bit more juice from the QSC. Can't argue with that, unless I get the size down even more and still get the efficiency advantage I want from it.

I've only done the tapped horn thing once so far, but I'm definitely hooked. I may never go back to sealed or vented designs... this is too much fun.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 05:38 AM   #52
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

Sweeeeeet
You're probably right - especially if I team a dual SDX10 horn with my existing Tang Band 8"x12" horn. I've already seen 120dB peaks at listening position from that big boy... now I want to further my understanding of tapped horns by building something that outclasses the TB horn while being smaller at the same time. Hornresp says the SDX is my woofer to do that with. Same corner frequency, more SPL, 110 liters less space, with only a bit more juice from the QSC. Can't argue with that, unless I get the size down even more and still get the efficiency advantage I want from it.

I've only done the tapped horn thing once so far, but I'm definitely hooked. I may never go back to sealed or vented designs... this is too much fun.
For me, one of the "fun" things about horns is that they're response shape is largely determined by Thiele Small parameters. While the size of the cone and the displacement of the woofer will affect maximum output, they won't affect response shape. Once you grok that, it opens up some wacky possibilities, like getting 20hz out of 6" woofer, or making a house-shaking sub with a pair of eights. You're not going to rock a discotech with a pair of sixes, but for home theater, it's enough bass for 90% of us. You just have to find one with the right Thiele Small.

For instance, let's say you want to make a 20hz tapped horn. Just find a woofer with an FS of 28hz.* That's it! Any ol' woofer will do. Sure, QTS and VAS will dictate your box size. But there's nothing from stopping you from using a 6" woofer to get to 20hz. You just have to find one with an FS in the neighborhood of 28hz.

* The figure of 28hz is found by multiplying your target Fb by 1.41. So you'd want a woofer with an Fs of 28hz for a 20hz tapped horn, and if you happen to have a woofer lying around with an Fs of 40hz, it would make a fine candidate for a 28hz tapped horn. This isn't a "hard and fast" rule, but it gets you in the ballpark.

  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 01:18 PM   #53
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
* The figure of 28hz is found by multiplying your target Fb by 1.41. So you'd want a woofer with an Fs of 28hz for a 20hz tapped horn, and if you happen to have a woofer lying around with an Fs of 40hz, it would make a fine candidate for a 28hz tapped horn. This isn't a "hard and fast" rule, but it gets you in the ballpark.
That sounds about right. I have my TB W8Q-1071F's at a 16Hz corner, but I got best results from them closer to 20Hz. There does seem to be some leeway there. Fs is 27Hz.

I'm struggling with efficiency vs. size on my SDX horn so far. I want to keep the size down, but I also want it more sensitive than 90dB @ 17Hz, even if that still gives me an advantage over a vented box. Somewhere along the way, I'll have to decide where to compromise. Have to remember there will be two tapped horns instead of one in here... I don't necessarily need sensitivity to be out of this world.

Ah well - I have a year to think about it, so says the wallet.

Last edited by Oklahoma Wolf; 2nd July 2010 at 01:40 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 03:27 PM   #54
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post
That sounds about right. I have my TB W8Q-1071F's at a 16Hz corner, but I got best results from them closer to 20Hz. There does seem to be some leeway there. Fs is 27Hz.

I'm struggling with efficiency vs. size on my SDX horn so far. I want to keep the size down, but I also want it more sensitive than 90dB @ 17Hz, even if that still gives me an advantage over a vented box. Somewhere along the way, I'll have to decide where to compromise. Have to remember there will be two tapped horns instead of one in here... I don't necessarily need sensitivity to be out of this world.

Ah well - I have a year to think about it, so says the wallet.
The MCM 55-2421 works very well in horns, but I've always found that it sounds a bit "grungey." While it has a lot of displacement, the motor and cone are old-school; a ferrite magnet, no shorting rings, and an untreated paper cone.

A couple of weeks ago I modified one of my tapped horns by doping the cone with Titebond III to waterproof it, then flipping one of the two woofers to reduce 2nd harmonic distortion.

I was surprised what a difference it made! It's audibly cleaner now.

You can purchase six of the 55-2421s for under $190, and I'll bet you could get them down to 18 or 19hz with some careful doping of the cone to raise QMS.

  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 09:41 PM   #55
Mark Kravchenko --- www.kravchenko-audio.com
diyAudio Member
 
mwmkravchenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Perth Canada
Default Volkwagons compared to Cadillacs

If you are going to compare two designs in the manner you have posted. Please take in consideration the passband the box was designed for.

The FLH I designed is done with an F3 of 16 hz. To try and post SPL's at the low frequencies you have is a bit on the bonkers side of things. THe FLH will be bottoming out very noticable at 13 hz at those levels. But find me some music that actually calls for much below 16hz. I listen to many Pipe organ CD's and have all of the killer ones. Not much below 16 hz. Even when run through a spectrum analyzer.

You have a really good design as far as I have ben able to look at it. It can be simulated in Hornresp as well. The two driver locations that you have are within 1/4 wavelenght and are pretty much at acoustical center in the placement that you have. Won't make the difference of a hill of beans in the final graphs.

Your definitly an intelligent designer. So please compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. I'm not competing with you. I may give you the gears from time to time, but I do admire your intelligence. And your woodworking has definitely gone up quite afew notches in quality.

With a few key strokes You or I could take any design and have ******* contests with it. But the practicallity problem is always there. The horns become gargantuan. Both sizes are similar that is why I presented a comparison.

The driver I used is not suitable for a tapped horn.

The driver you used is really not suitable for a FLH.

Both will function but they shine in their present boxes.

I hope all goes well on your presentation. I thoroughly enjoyed mine. It's fun to watch guys jaws drop and heads wag with you can't hear 16 hz and then whammo! Yep you can hear 16 hz. It's just that you have never been infront of a sub that can produce it loud enough to hear it!

So all the more power to you John. Knock em dead! Or vibrate them dead .......( Yeah we know Patrick is not your real name! )

Mark
__________________
Mark
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 11:21 PM   #56
GM is offline GM  United States
diyAudio Member
 
GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chamblee, Ga.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmkravchenko View Post
The driver I used is not suitable for a tapped horn.

Both will function but they shine in their present boxes.
Bummer. It sims good in a 'mini' DSL DTS10 concept that's right at half the net bulk of your FLH, though it's still a little dynamically challenged when pumped up to the same size with the trade-off it's still pounding along down to near 10 Hz in theory hard enough to level my so-so constructed house based on what dual 14 Hz SD Contrabass subs did to it.

GM
Attached Images
File Type: gif CSS TRIO12 11 Hz DTS concept.gif (22.0 KB, 290 views)
File Type: gif CSS TRIO12 11 Hz DTS concept Vs FLH.gif (21.4 KB, 293 views)
__________________
Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 11:55 PM   #57
Mark Kravchenko --- www.kravchenko-audio.com
diyAudio Member
 
mwmkravchenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Perth Canada
Hey GM

It can work.

It just does not work as well as other drivers. But I'm preaching to the choir on this one.

Thanks for the comparison. Any chance you care to post the input screen on the Tapped you did?

Mark
__________________
Mark
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2010, 12:52 AM   #58
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
The MCM 55-2421 works very well in horns
Yeah, I've seen it used in a design or two. The obstacle there is getting them across the border and the associated customs and duty fees, as well as some previous bad experiences with buying MCM. I'll probably stick to CSS - they're nice people and I haven't spent much money there yet.

Mach 5 has a new 12" woofer coming out soon... I'm hoping and praying it will do well in a tapped horn. It looks like a monster, and Mach 5 is both close to me and a great company to buy from.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2010, 12:59 AM   #59
GM is offline GM  United States
diyAudio Member
 
GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chamblee, Ga.
Greets!

Hmm, maybe you're not since for the gain BW, etc., I'm interested in, it's the best I've found so far without resorting to adding resistance, inductance or designing a custom driver.

I didn't save the pumped up one, so just use the Wizard to increase S4 till it gets to the desired net Vb.

GM
Attached Images
File Type: gif CSS TRIO12 11 Hz DTS concept specs.gif (15.1 KB, 284 views)
__________________
Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2010, 01:10 AM   #60
Mark Kravchenko --- www.kravchenko-audio.com
diyAudio Member
 
mwmkravchenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Perth Canada
I'm off to see the wizard!

Thanks GM

Fun to do adirect comparison

Mark
__________________
Mark
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Got my 6BG6GA's last night Original Burnedfingers Tubes / Valves 10 5th November 2006 11:42 PM
Calling all Bassheads Bikeman Instruments and Amps 5 1st September 2005 04:15 PM
Living with (the) PMt lazyfly Multi-Way 1 31st March 2005 03:47 PM
Canada living moving_electron The Lounge 73 18th November 2004 05:02 AM
Night dreaming? / Middle of the night bloom Gabevee Tubes / Valves 54 25th July 2004 04:36 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:07 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2