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Old 13th June 2010, 12:04 AM   #1
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Question 10" 15hz Tapped Horn

Looking to do build something that splits the difference between the Danley DTS-10 that everyone loves and it's little brother the TH-SPUD. Looking for more extension rather than absolute SPL and a form factor that is similar to the Danleys.

Been playing with HORNRESP and have come up with a design that I'd like to get some input on.

Searched through a bunch of 10" drivers...found this one that seems like a good fit with the enclosure. The driver is the PIONEER TS-W258D2 from Parts Express. I modeled quite a few other 10" drivers and quite a number "seem" to do well with the same enclosure.


[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png[/IMG]

Here is the input screen from HORNRESP:


Click the image to open in full size.

The output screen:
Click the image to open in full size.

Recommendations//Comments//Feedback??? I am pretty new to HORNRESP and want an extra set of eyes on the design. I am planning to build two of these and stuff them behind by cabinet/screen.
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Old 13th June 2010, 04:57 AM   #2
GM is offline GM  United States
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Can only see the response plot, so just ran the numbers for a single and it came out something like this:

GM
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File Type: gif Pioneer TS-W258D2 15 Hz DTS concept.gif (15.1 KB, 120 views)
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Old 13th June 2010, 06:38 AM   #3
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Sorry about that...hopefully this works better:

Click the image to open in full size.


Not really worried about size...I have an 8' high x8' wide x1' deep area with which to work
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Old 13th June 2010, 06:44 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by GM View Post
Can only see the response plot, so just ran the numbers for a single and it came out something like this:

GM

I plugged in your numbers...thank you for modeling it! Very different response than what I am looking at with my concept when I use my numbers.
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Old 13th June 2010, 04:12 PM   #5
GM is offline GM  United States
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You're welcome!

Yeah, I didn't reverse engineer it to find a closer Sd, but I used Pioneer's specs with Prof. Leach's math to get the design, so the results are 'close enough' even when I plug in your Sd, etc.. Who knows what either alignment looks like with measured specs though............

FWIW, mine doubled up. If nothing else, it's smaller, though of course won't play as loud down low since its net Vb sets its max SPL capability. Of more importance IME is that it has enough dynamic headroom above ~30 Hz up against a wall to EQ flat in-room and still meet DD/DTS/THX reference with low/no audible compression if the amp is powerful enough:

GM
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File Type: gif Pioneer TS-W258D2 15 Hz DTS concept - dual parallel.gif (15.0 KB, 76 views)
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Last edited by GM; 13th June 2010 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 13th June 2010, 07:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM View Post
You're welcome!

Yeah, I didn't reverse engineer it to find a closer Sd, but I used Pioneer's specs with Prof. Leach's math to get the design, so the results are 'close enough' even when I plug in your Sd, etc.. Who knows what either alignment looks like with measured specs though............

FWIW, mine doubled up. If nothing else, it's smaller, though of course won't play as loud down low since its net Vb sets its max SPL capability. Of more importance IME is that it has enough dynamic headroom above ~30 Hz up against a wall to EQ flat in-room and still meet DD/DTS/THX reference with low/no audible compression if the amp is powerful enough:

GM
Wow! The curve from that looks really good. Very similar to what I cooked up..
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Old 13th June 2010, 10:35 PM   #7
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Just noticed that yours is longer at ~12.48 Hz rather than the 15 Hz you listed, so here's a more direct comparison. Again, being smaller it's not as flat or has as much acoustic efficiency. Not many free 'lunches' in audio.

GM
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Old 13th June 2010, 11:02 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by GM View Post
Just noticed that yours is longer at ~12.48 Hz rather than the 15 Hz you listed, so here's a more direct comparison. Again, being smaller it's not as flat or has as much acoustic efficiency. Not many free 'lunches' in audio.

GM
You are correct that I did select a lower tuning point...trying to re-create performance similar to the big danley just with 10's instead of 12's.

I'm not really looking for super loud bass, but rather want something that sounds great, goes deep and really just gives you the overall sense of impending doom when it is running...sort of like the sound that distant thunder makes...you hear it, but it is not that loud, but you can feel it. I dont listen to movies or music all that loud, certainly not reference level. The one thing that I do have going for me is that I have a large amount of space to work with...roughly 64 cubic feet...it is just that I am constrained to only 12" deep!
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Old 14th June 2010, 02:42 AM   #9
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Hi jblauvelt,

I'll attach a Hornresp Input screen for a 12" deep THSPUD, and a SPL comparison between the TangBand W8-740P in the 11" THSPUD (light gray line) and the Pioneer W258D2 in the 12" deep box. The speakers are connected in series. From geitmans thread you can get a pretty good idea what this combination would do:

Dual 8" tapped horn = TH-SPUD

From playing around with various speakers in the original THSPUD enclosure it seems that this is a very forgiving layout.

The DTS-10 looks like an enlarged THSPUD with custom 12" drivers, you could try to tilt 12" drivers to see if you can fit them into you height requirement.

Regards,
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TS_W258DE2_THSPUD_12in_deep_IN_SPL_comp.jpg (31.7 KB, 134 views)
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Old 14th June 2010, 02:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi jblauvelt,

I'll attach a Hornresp Input screen for a 12" deep THSPUD, and a SPL comparison between the TangBand W8-740P in the 11" THSPUD (light gray line) and the Pioneer W258D2 in the 12" deep box. The speakers are connected in series. From geitmans thread you can get a pretty good idea what this combination would do:

Dual 8" tapped horn = TH-SPUD

From playing around with various speakers in the original THSPUD enclosure it seems that this is a very forgiving layout.

The DTS-10 looks like an enlarged THSPUD with custom 12" drivers, you could try to tilt 12" drivers to see if you can fit them into you height requirement.

Regards,

Thanks TB46 -- I have looked at the TH-SPUD posts for quite a while. The TH-Spud is a shorter horn...and therefore tuned a bit higher...(20 or 22 hz vs 12 hz). Not really sure how much of a difference this would make in the real world. A pair of spuds aimed up about a foot away from the ceiling (mouths together) should do quite well and are shallower too. I may jsut go that route...or perhaps plug the tang bands into the enclosure that I posted initially and call it done.

You are correct that both danley enclosures are very forgiving. THe DTS is just a bit longer.
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