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Old 22nd April 2010, 07:39 PM   #1
jcandy is offline jcandy  United States
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Default Dual subs, sealed, powered by external Emotiva AMP

Does anyone have an idea for dual subs (one under each of the front L/R speakers) along these lines:

- Focus is music, not HT.
- Relatively low f3 would be nice
- Max SPL is not critical
- Prefer sealed enclosures of minimal size.
- Willing to pay for high-end drivers (say, $250 per driver).
- Will be driven by two channels of Emotiva UPA-7 (125Wx7)

The nominal thing would be 2 x Dayton RSS315HF each in a 2-3 cu-ft box. Is there a sensible alternative?
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Old 23rd April 2010, 02:11 AM   #3
jcandy is offline jcandy  United States
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Currently I have a single Dayton Quatro 15 and BASH 300 plate amp. Generally, as we all know, the 15s will buy a little sensitivity and maximum SPL, but will require larger enclosures. I think two 12s are probably optimal.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 02:15 AM   #4
jcandy is offline jcandy  United States
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I guess what I'm asking is what 12in subs are better than the Dayton RSS315 for sealed usage?
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Old 24th April 2010, 08:35 PM   #5
zora is offline zora  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcandy View Post
Currently I have a single Dayton Quatro 15 and BASH 300 plate amp. Generally, as we all know, the 15s will buy a little sensitivity and maximum SPL, but will require larger enclosures. I think two 12s are probably optimal.
You have the perfect combo for Bill F. THT subwoofer. I know that people are all excited about it for HT, but with the low distortion numbers it should be perfect for 2-channel.

JP
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Old 24th April 2010, 09:43 PM   #6
Kilroy is offline Kilroy  United States
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I've been thinking along the same lines... Stereo 12's to support a pair of FRs at the lower end.

I came across these 12" Pioneers

Parts-Express.com:Pioneer A30IR50-51F 12" Butyl Surround Woofer | woofer 12" woofer midbass rubber surround pioneer petesting

I know they're kinda budget... But they looked like they had a pretty broad/flat range that would allow for a little more flexibility in the xover, the size of the Full Ranges used, and the enclosure design. They'll be chip/tube amp driven, so there's not much need for super high power handling for me and I doubt basket distortion is going to be a huge issue at the levels I play around with...

But that's just my reasoning and I'm a newb... Thoughts?

-Phil
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Old 29th April 2010, 06:29 AM   #7
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jcandy,

You really need to start with the driver first, choosing one that will meet your needs, then choosing the amplifier that will drive it adequately. If you start with the amp, then you have to choose a driver that it will suit. Bit of a cart before the horse scenario.

You have the amp already - fair enough. Just don't pair it with a high excursion sub driver, you won't get good results and you'll end up wanting more power and buying another amp.

Using that amp and your music priority, I would not choose a high excursion subwoofer but active woofers. This would tend to mean woofers with around 7 - 9mm xmax in a reasonabe sized vented box.

High excursion sub drivers need more power - 125w is certainly not enough.

I'd be looking at either some good pro woofers like B&C 12" woofers or even better, AE TD12X.
AE Speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely.

It has almost as much excursion as the Dayton driver, it has less than a third of the inductance, it has 7db higher efficiency which means that for a given input power, one will sound louder than two of the Dayton stacked next to each other. You'll get satisfying levels with the power you have contrasting to very modest output from the Dayton. I once tried powering a pair of sub drivers with a NAD power amp. I found it very frustrating and there was no way to know when the amp was being pushed too hard. If you want to drive a high excursion sub for a music application, you really want a pro amp with plenty of power and clipping indicators. But for your application I see no advantage to going this way - I'd say you're much better off with active woofers.

Another advantage is you can cross your mains much higher. In fact if you cross at say 300 Hz, the power distribution is now halved. That means your mains only need 50% of the power of running full range. They will play cleaner as a result, so you are not just adding deeper or more bass. You can't cross a sub this high, but active woofers with these drivers can play cleanly up as high as you want, the only limitation being they eventually start to beam.
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Old 29th April 2010, 08:14 AM   #8
gooki is offline gooki  New Zealand
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Peerless XLS is well worth looking at.
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Old 29th April 2010, 04:46 PM   #9
jcandy is offline jcandy  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulspencer View Post
You have the amp already - fair enough. Just don't pair it with a high excursion sub driver, you won't get good results and you'll end up wanting more power and buying another amp.

Using that amp and your music priority, I would not choose a high excursion subwoofer but active woofers. This would tend to mean woofers with around 7 - 9mm xmax in a reasonabe sized vented box.

High excursion sub drivers need more power - 125w is certainly not enough.

I'd be looking at either some good pro woofers like B&C 12" woofers or even better, AE TD12X.
AE Speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely.
Thanks a million for this post, Paul. I think I follow and agree with the direction you are pointing me in, here, which is to avoid the standard (sub plus plate amp) approach which is heavily weighted for HT use. Your mention of the AE drivers had me stumble upon Dan Neubecker's BaSSlines design:

HTGuide Forum - View Single Post - The BaSSlines (was High Sensitivity Design)

Since this full-range design, by all accounts, has spectacular bass performance and high efficiency, I may just build a (reduced-complexity) variation of it. For HT use, presumably I can just have the bass management route all bass+LFE to them.
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Last edited by jcandy; 29th April 2010 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 28th May 2010, 11:59 AM   #10
buggers is offline buggers  United States
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AE drivers would be at the top of my list.
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