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#1 | |||||||
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oklahoma
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There are those who propose that a spiral introduced within a volume within a speaker enclosure is no more than a fancy folding scheme with the disadvantage of being extremely complicated to design.
They will claim that a spiral will offer absolutely no benefit towards reducing the size of a bass speaker enclosure. However, I would propose that those who partake of that view are neglecting to factor into their consideration the principle of acoustical induction. Consider that the classic horn works as an impedance transformer. http://www.audioxpress.com/magsdirx/...olbrek2884.pdf Quoting from the above referenced link, consider the following quotes: Quote:
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See: http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v5/n6/fig_tab/nmat1644_F1.html A circular duct with spiral element inside, is an improved Helmholtz resonator. Higher acoustical parameters are achieved when the spiral duct has more eligible geometrical parameters fitted to the sound wave length. See: http://cds.comsol.com/access/dl/papers/5112/Lapka.pdf Quote:
See:http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/waves/soundwav.htm Sound readily bends around obstacles. See above Quote:
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#2 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oklahoma
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See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_transmission_line A spiral within a tube increases SPL.. See: http://cds.comsol.com/access/dl/papers/5112/Lapka.pdf A vented box interior works primarily as Helmholtz resonator that amplifies bass frequencies. See: http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/teaching/S-89.3480/analogies_2009.pdf Continued |
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#3 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oklahoma
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All of the below qouted material is extracted from
Behaviour of a Solenoid Coil as a Transmission Line Author: R.J.Edwards G4FGQ © 16th March 2006 Quote:
So, why does the wire or rod need to be pruned (shortened) to be smaller than 1/4 wavelength of the targeted frequency? The inductance of the coil itself ! In using the program I would enter the speed of sound as the speed of light: 344m/s at 20 C The density of air can be entered as Po 1.25 kg/m^3 Continued... |
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#4 | |||
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oklahoma
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Formulas for Acoustical Inductance, Acoiustical Capacitance, and Acoustical Resistance may be found here:
http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/teaching...ogies_2009.pdf Continuing with the quote of Behaviour of a Solenoid Coil as a Transmission Line: Quote:
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Can those who expound the view that a spiral configuration introduces nothing positive to a low frequency loudspeaker enclosure (Especially concerning size reduction) cite any references in particular to refute such a theory? Regards, Dane |
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#5 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wellington
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A straight wire exhibits inductance. A straight pipe exhibits "inductance". Coiling a wire enables coupling between the coils and concentrates the magnetic flux, allowing a given inductance to be obtained in a smaller space. Coiling a pipe does not enable coupling between the coils. No space advantage. ---------------------------------------------- - Great Big Billy Goat Gruff. |
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#6 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oklahoma
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Quote:
And I appreciate that you are making me think in new ways. As far as the question of magnetic flux, which is a form of energy createrd by the mechanical action resulting from a wave being induced into a spiral shape. This is energy, correct? In an airless duct one spiral introduced into a duct resulted in a significant spl level of the tuned frequency resonance. Can we agree that a mechanical force of inductance was introduced as a result of the spiral? Looking at figure five of the Lap paper (Not the pdf powerpoint presentation), I would disregard the duct and consider the shape of the spiral. First, I would wonder if a horn resp designed tapped horn would benifet from the added inducted of building the enclosure exactly acording to the given program measurements, but built in such a way that the enclosure was a quarter wavelength in length. Consider a Tuba stretched out with one spiral. Since a tapped horn could not be modeled in such a physical design, I would consider the following possibilities: 1.) A push pull spiral tapped horn design with a driver at each end being fed at the mouth from the other driver. First, A.) Wouldn't our hypothetical enclosure enjoy the encreased inductance/energy transfer from the two spirals as well as the push pull design? B.) Assuming the above design uses the same dimensions as two hornresp designed spiral/boxes, shouldn't the spl increase be above those measured in a similar box without the spirals? C.) Would our box our box offer increased output over the two tapped horns using the same drivers? D.) Since a push-pull speaker arrangement is said to offer a reduction in box size by as much as half, (though I realize that we arent talking about a true push-pull design here in that it isn't a vented ported box, such as in a 6th level bandpass), would it not offer some inductance in addition to the two spirals? Then, if the above holds true, shouldn't one be able to at least model a push pull type tapped horn within a spiral duct with at least the same SPL LF level over a single tapped horn in a significantly reduced space requirement? Or does introducing a properly designed spiral to a 130 Hz wave create SPL increasing inductance that is not mechanically possible with a 20 Hz wave? Regards, Dane |
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#7 | ||||||||
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oklahoma
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Reference : http://members.fortunecity.com/anemaw/infrasonic.htm Quote:
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http://www.physorg.com/news68357796.html And see: Focusing Sound without a Lens http://focus.aps.org/story/v14/st3 And also see: First acoustic metamaterial 'superlens' created: http://www.physorg.com/news165064464.html Quote:
OK, I know. A new substance, a so called “ultrasonic metamaterial” is the principal involved here, not any deviation from any established scientific law of acoustics. But…then again…First hyperlens for sound waves created Quote:
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The silly fools! Of course that’s not possible. An object 1/6th the size of a given wavelength is necessarily invisible to that frequency. It’s the law! I was just reading a few hours ago on some website now closed that acoustics is a subject not investigated in physics anymore, as it is considered that all of the essential physical properties of sound waves were discovered in the nineteenth century! I have recently downloaded and (mostly) read an interesting thesis by John T. Post and Elmer L.Hixon entitled as “A Modeling and Measurement Study of Acoustic Horns.” http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/3/814933/post_thesis_ut94.pdf (1994) The first paragraph of that document makes the astonishing observation as follows: Quote:
Could it be possible that Webster actually retarded the development of the acoustic horn? Preposterous, you say. Such an assertion would likely be akin to making the claim that Maxwell retarded the development of the science of electromagnetic theory. Let’s go there! Regards, Dane |
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#8 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Georgia
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OK? What happened to your original thread topic?
This last post is so far out there that it doesn't make any sense. You seem to have missed the point, and application of everything you linked to. Are you sure you have never posted here under another name? |
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#9 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Two comments, coming from someone whose background is RF:
1) Antennas are quite a bit different from acoustics - they're designed to operate at either a single band, or multiple bands with help from a tuned circuit (i.e. an antenna tuner or phaser). Acoustics are wide-band, they're expected to perform relatively the same over several octaves whereas antennas are not. 2) Your use of the term "inductance" with regard to acoustical waveguides is incorrect. Inductance simply means the store of energy in magnetic form and implies electromotive force. Acoustical waveguides do not exhibit inductance. |
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#10 | |||
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oklahoma
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OK, I'll bite. Exactly where have I deviated from my "original thread topic" central to any of the three threads (to date) that I have posted here in the Subwoofer Forum?
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Even so, after about five dozen or so hours of reading and research I'm getting a clearer and clearer picture all the time. It has relevance to what is called a transverse electromagnet wave which is appearantly intentionally suppressed in physics but available to those learned in antenna theory. I will shortly be looking into the plausablity that a transverse electromagnetic wave is not actually a reflected wave traveling 90 degrees in phase with a a sine wave but is actually the reverse cycle of a wave traveling in a spiral formation- in essence a standing wave travelling slower than the speed of light. I''l be soon post here a link to a that thread which I will be posting elsewhere in the interest of expanding this discussion. You are welcome to join in, of course. I have posted links to all of Tom Danley's posts regarding antenna theory applied to the design of tapped horns (that I could find) that he posted here at diyAudio , if you are interested. Finally, I invite you to come up with some independant observations by seeing if you can google up an animated gif of a directed sound wave packet of multiple frequencies traveling as one wave together as a unit much slower than the speed of sound, even though the waves are still at sound speed... Does a directed sound packet actually travel in the form of a double cork screw shaped spiral? If it's not a spiral but instead a funny shaped sine wave, then maybe you can explain how a multi-frequency directed sound wave packet can be moving in unison as one wave at sound speed velocity yet travel slower than the speed of sound? The 2D representation I saw looked obvious to me as a spiral. Funny that the physics sites I visited never brought up that explanation. Come to think of it, I do not recall any explanation of why the packet was traveling slower than sound speed. However, I do seem to remember the observation that the phenomenon was interesting to note, but of no value to physicast. Say what? Now i am the one having a little comprehension problem here. Maybe you can help me make some sense of this... Quote:
But, due process demands that before I be asked to present a defense I must be made to understand the nature of what I am being accused of. Since I have a hobby of practicing law without a license ***(it's fun to "rattle the cage" of the local crime ring running the courthouse from time to time) I stand upon that precipt now. ![]() Regards, Dane Metcalfe *** Charges against Johnny were, as predicted, dismissed despite the best efforts of the lawyer* he got scared and hired. *One of the local crime lords in the above referenced criminal organization. |
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