maxmercy has been helping me with the sims, I'll get the input data for you.
No ******* contest, simply 20hz at 140db using the 5100 driver.
The music I play is Drum and Bass and Dubstep. Both have measurable content at and below 20hz. I have heard this particular music on many direct-radiating systems and none were as capable as the THTs.
The DRwiK turned out great actually, even worked with the 12w0s.
With the THTs the upper bandwidth gets a little mushy higher than 80-90hz.
Haven't decided on the kickbin thing yet, this sub build is my primary focus right now.
No ******* contest, simply 20hz at 140db using the 5100 driver.
The music I play is Drum and Bass and Dubstep. Both have measurable content at and below 20hz. I have heard this particular music on many direct-radiating systems and none were as capable as the THTs.
The DRwiK turned out great actually, even worked with the 12w0s.
With the THTs the upper bandwidth gets a little mushy higher than 80-90hz.
Haven't decided on the kickbin thing yet, this sub build is my primary focus right now.
Yup
As small as can get the job done, I'd like to try and keep it shaped so I can place casters and handles for either rolling or 2 person carrying. The THTs were a tad frustrating at house parties. I may do up a pair of ported enclosures just for houses.
wi:
I am certainly not one to argue with the direction you want to go. However, I'll put out one thing I've found about 'uber-drivers.' They typically don't live up to their uber-rep, especially end of the night, when voice coil heating, and other factors are figured in. I have typically found that several cheaper drivers does better than one big expensive one. That is why my hornresp sim was for a quad of 3015lf's, not your chosen 5100neo. My sim was only 200watts into each driver, only 50% of the coils PE. If you'd like a good example of compression, look no further than lelands own T48's.. ProSpeakers Forum - Fitzmaurice Titan 48 - Wayne Parham, October 21, 2007 at 14:31:26
Just so you'd have an idea of what I proposed, here is a cartoon of it. I don't know if this fits your idea of correct size or not, but it would be easy to put wheels on it, and make it a one man job to move. Personally I would cut it in half and put strap handles on each side, so I could carry, not wheel.
anyway, good luck, and I look forward to seeing your hornresp sim so I know better what you are contemplating.
I am certainly not one to argue with the direction you want to go. However, I'll put out one thing I've found about 'uber-drivers.' They typically don't live up to their uber-rep, especially end of the night, when voice coil heating, and other factors are figured in. I have typically found that several cheaper drivers does better than one big expensive one. That is why my hornresp sim was for a quad of 3015lf's, not your chosen 5100neo. My sim was only 200watts into each driver, only 50% of the coils PE. If you'd like a good example of compression, look no further than lelands own T48's.. ProSpeakers Forum - Fitzmaurice Titan 48 - Wayne Parham, October 21, 2007 at 14:31:26
Just so you'd have an idea of what I proposed, here is a cartoon of it. I don't know if this fits your idea of correct size or not, but it would be easy to put wheels on it, and make it a one man job to move. Personally I would cut it in half and put strap handles on each side, so I could carry, not wheel.
anyway, good luck, and I look forward to seeing your hornresp sim so I know better what you are contemplating.
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That build looks relatively simple in comparison. No final design has yet been settled on, but I'm contemplating all options.
I am pretty locked on the 5100 however. It will be a good experiment to see how uber the driver is. If anyone can break it, I can
You should see what I did to a DVC voice coil hehe.
I am pretty locked on the 5100 however. It will be a good experiment to see how uber the driver is. If anyone can break it, I can
You should see what I did to a DVC voice coil hehe.
yea... once you get an idea...
I congratulate you on your drive, and persistence...
You break that quad 3015lf big box down into small 250 liter boxes -- you get a modular system that scales from house parties, to getting the cops called in from another city. The spl chart is 250watts per driver * 16. (still half price of 4 neo5100's)
sorry, I'm like you... I get an idea, and stick with it. Right now that prevailing thought for me is multiple small boxes. (I'm getting old, I think...)
Have fun, and post your results.
I congratulate you on your drive, and persistence...
You break that quad 3015lf big box down into small 250 liter boxes -- you get a modular system that scales from house parties, to getting the cops called in from another city. The spl chart is 250watts per driver * 16. (still half price of 4 neo5100's)
sorry, I'm like you... I get an idea, and stick with it. Right now that prevailing thought for me is multiple small boxes. (I'm getting old, I think...)
Have fun, and post your results.
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That sim you have there is for 16 drivers right? So 4 of the quad 15" boxes?
Awful damn flat.
And dividing the big horn into 4 smaller horns is a good idea for scalability.
Don't get too hung up on the price of the 5100, I'm direct.
JBell
Heres the HR
ID=23.40
Ang=2.0 x Pi
Eg=60.00
Rg=0.00
Fta=4.03
S1=336.00
S2=880.42
Con=10.00
F12=0.00
S2=880.42
S3=5000.53
Con=500.40
F23=0.00
S3=5000.53
S4=6000.00
Con=54.00
F34=0.00
S4=0.00
S5=0.00
L45=0.00
F45=0.00
Sd=1680.00
Bl=32.60
Cms=6.30E-05
Rms=10.70
Mmd=437.80
Le=1.30
Re=3.30
TH=2P
Vrc=0.00
Lrc=0.00
Ap1=0.00
Lpt=0.00
Vtc=0.00
Atc=0.00
Com=TH 221 Clone B&C 21SW150 21" 4 Ohm 1500w 15mm Xmax 60v
And WiSound -
You do realize the distance needed to hear a 20 hz wave correct? IE You are never going to be in a house with a big enough room for you to actually hear it. Now the neighbors down the road will for sure. And the neighbors down the road from them as well.
Side note - built some McCauley 6174 18" reflex cabs back in the 90's.
18 cubic feet tuned to 25 Hz. Built 6. You could dry your hair with them and not hear a thing since they had a low pass of 30 Hz. Move back 60 feet and you couldn't sit and your eyes wouldn't focus, testicls would bounce in your sack. That was a beast of a driver back then. Damn fun.
So what is your top DubStep track at the moment?
Favorite DnB track?
Heres the HR
ID=23.40
Ang=2.0 x Pi
Eg=60.00
Rg=0.00
Fta=4.03
S1=336.00
S2=880.42
Con=10.00
F12=0.00
S2=880.42
S3=5000.53
Con=500.40
F23=0.00
S3=5000.53
S4=6000.00
Con=54.00
F34=0.00
S4=0.00
S5=0.00
L45=0.00
F45=0.00
Sd=1680.00
Bl=32.60
Cms=6.30E-05
Rms=10.70
Mmd=437.80
Le=1.30
Re=3.30
TH=2P
Vrc=0.00
Lrc=0.00
Ap1=0.00
Lpt=0.00
Vtc=0.00
Atc=0.00
Com=TH 221 Clone B&C 21SW150 21" 4 Ohm 1500w 15mm Xmax 60v
And WiSound -
You do realize the distance needed to hear a 20 hz wave correct? IE You are never going to be in a house with a big enough room for you to actually hear it. Now the neighbors down the road will for sure. And the neighbors down the road from them as well.
Side note - built some McCauley 6174 18" reflex cabs back in the 90's.
18 cubic feet tuned to 25 Hz. Built 6. You could dry your hair with them and not hear a thing since they had a low pass of 30 Hz. Move back 60 feet and you couldn't sit and your eyes wouldn't focus, testicls would bounce in your sack. That was a beast of a driver back then. Damn fun.
So what is your top DubStep track at the moment?
Favorite DnB track?
Bone Loc-Spacecataz
Lomax-Artisan
TBH it changes daily, gotta do top 10s sometime. The new Phace LP is sick.
All time DnB demo tune is Original Sin - Decibel, main bass is centered at 35hz.
Well I cant remember my MySpace log in at the moment so I cant check out that Bone Loc track. Less you got another link for it?
Checked out 2 other tracks by artist. Typical dubstep to me.
The Lomax - Artisan VIP mix. Been there over 10 years ago. Though it does get nice an low.
So far my top 2 dubstep tracks are
White Lies - "Death" Chase & Status rmx & La Roux "In for the kill" Skream rmx.
Course that one made Skream HUGE. Chase & Status - well they are just good. Numerous DnB tracks by them I like.
Rule 1 - if you have to be drugs to dance to it. It isn't dance music.
Rule 2 - if you have to be on drugs to feel it - it is just fodder.
1% great
2% good
The rest is just crap made for a buck.
So what about those inputs?
Checked out 2 other tracks by artist. Typical dubstep to me.
The Lomax - Artisan VIP mix. Been there over 10 years ago. Though it does get nice an low.
So far my top 2 dubstep tracks are
White Lies - "Death" Chase & Status rmx & La Roux "In for the kill" Skream rmx.
Course that one made Skream HUGE. Chase & Status - well they are just good. Numerous DnB tracks by them I like.
Rule 1 - if you have to be drugs to dance to it. It isn't dance music.
Rule 2 - if you have to be on drugs to feel it - it is just fodder.
1% great
2% good
The rest is just crap made for a buck.
So what about those inputs?
jbell, you have realy confused me!
Your cartoon appears to show the horn throat becoming narrower towards the rear of the box. At the rear of the box it suddenly jumps to its widest. The horn path then becomes narrower as it approaches the mouth.
I am a complete TH newbie - I thought the horn starts smallest in teh mouth and becomes larger and larger in cross-sectional area until it reaches the mouth.
So I am really confused!
Your cartoon appears to show the horn throat becoming narrower towards the rear of the box. At the rear of the box it suddenly jumps to its widest. The horn path then becomes narrower as it approaches the mouth.
I am a complete TH newbie - I thought the horn starts smallest in teh mouth and becomes larger and larger in cross-sectional area until it reaches the mouth.
So I am really confused!
One path splits into 2 at the rear of the 'cartoon', and cross sectional area stays the same, and continues the negative flare from 4000cm2 to 2000cm2.
There is no exact rule on expansion flares for a TH, or many of it's variants.
An expanding flare gives more overall spl, and more higher freq output.
A reducing flare sacrifices spl and higher freq output, in favor of going lower.
You can have expanding and/or contracting flares, or even 'stepped sections' in a TH.
Wi wanted flat to 20hz, no matter what, and my hornresp sim gives that.
In order to get that, much spl potential above 20hz is sacrificed.
There is no exact rule on expansion flares for a TH, or many of it's variants.
An expanding flare gives more overall spl, and more higher freq output.
A reducing flare sacrifices spl and higher freq output, in favor of going lower.
You can have expanding and/or contracting flares, or even 'stepped sections' in a TH.
Wi wanted flat to 20hz, no matter what, and my hornresp sim gives that.
In order to get that, much spl potential above 20hz is sacrificed.
jbell - thanks for explaining!
looks like I have a long road ahead of me. So much to learn!
I'm looking forward to more vicarious thrills as Wi's project takes off.
It's like a rocket launch. I don't want to be near it, but it's pretty cool watching at a distance!
To avoid beginners like me pestering the people in the know with questions, is there a tapped horn theory page you would recommend above all others? Ideally with examples and pictures... I have seen a few, but it's hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.
thanks!
Ben
P.S. "An expanding flare gives more overall spl, and more higher freq output.
A reducing flare sacrifices spl and higher freq output, in favor of going lower."
And a tapped horn with no flare would be a (tuned and tapped) pipe?
looks like I have a long road ahead of me. So much to learn!
I'm looking forward to more vicarious thrills as Wi's project takes off.
It's like a rocket launch. I don't want to be near it, but it's pretty cool watching at a distance!
To avoid beginners like me pestering the people in the know with questions, is there a tapped horn theory page you would recommend above all others? Ideally with examples and pictures... I have seen a few, but it's hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.
thanks!
Ben
P.S. "An expanding flare gives more overall spl, and more higher freq output.
A reducing flare sacrifices spl and higher freq output, in favor of going lower."
And a tapped horn with no flare would be a (tuned and tapped) pipe?
TRIO8 "Unhorn" Proof Of Concept - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp - AVS Forum
19.5Hz Tapped Horn(Not a Phase Box!) - Realm of Excursion
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/97674-collaborative-tapped-horn-project.html
Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp - AVS Forum
19.5Hz Tapped Horn(Not a Phase Box!) - Realm of Excursion
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/97674-collaborative-tapped-horn-project.html
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Hi,
FYI and 2 cents of thoughts: While we all are waiting for a HR input screen data or similar trustworthy information of the suggested design:
Look at my simulations that I believe should work in order trying to comply with the requirement of 20 Hz horn loading..
b
FYI and 2 cents of thoughts: While we all are waiting for a HR input screen data or similar trustworthy information of the suggested design:
Look at my simulations that I believe should work in order trying to comply with the requirement of 20 Hz horn loading..
b
Attachments
What I like about this forums is there are so many people with so many different tastes. You've got the classical music purists, the middle aged guys who only listen to classic rock, cause that's what they liked as kids, and the partying youngsters listening to dubstep. Me personally I like all three (great to see C&S mentioned in here, my fav dubstep track at the moment is Mad House by C&S, with rap by MURS).
Anyways, don't really have any design suggestions to add, but I'll be following this thread, as I'm quite curious to see what comes from this. 140dB at 20Hz is a pretty ambitious target, especially when it's not a one-note car-tuned boombox. So I hope you can figure something interesting out, seems to be a lot of nice developments lately with horns and quarterwaves and tapped and folded whatnots, nice to see all the variety.
Anyways, don't really have any design suggestions to add, but I'll be following this thread, as I'm quite curious to see what comes from this. 140dB at 20Hz is a pretty ambitious target, especially when it's not a one-note car-tuned boombox. So I hope you can figure something interesting out, seems to be a lot of nice developments lately with horns and quarterwaves and tapped and folded whatnots, nice to see all the variety.
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