I'm just looking for 20 up. With a filter there is roll off higher, the peak at 20 of the TH is a good countermeasure.
I have an open mind, but I can't afford to tackle the amps and bins at the same time. I could try to get a used Macro-Tech.
Yea I'd be tempted to roll that one up at 15hz, and throw in a parametric compressor between 15 and 19hz at 1.7:1, if I didn't already have the DSP as in your situation.
On the MacroTech - you read my mind But upon closer inspection, they have a slew rate more dismal than your Ashlys. The damping factor leaves a little to be desired as well. The MT is 1000, but the K2 is greater than 3000 within the entire passband of your subs. If you do happen to find something that outperforms that 3000 damping factor and will go down to 8hz as the K2 will, I hope you'll let us know.
On the MacroTech - you read my mind
But upon closer inspection, they have a slew rate more dismal than your Ashlys. The damping factor leaves a little to be desired as well. The MT is 1000, but the K2 is greater than 3000 within the entire passband of your subs. If you do happen to find something that outperforms that 3000 damping factor and will go down to 8hz as the K2 will, I hope you'll let us know.
My specs in Post #50 are
smaller...552 vs 588L,
better in throat compression ratio...1.96 vs 2.65,
bigger in mouth...2,400 vs 2,000cm^2,
louder @ 20hz...129.2257 vs 128.9236db's,
more powerful @ 31mm...234 vs 500wrms,
and when wattage is applied, my Spl Response is flatter & louder @ 0.5Pi
You didn't compensate for the speaker hole cut out & wood thickness with Vtc & Atc.
That's always good, unless it costs low end response.
Well, .3021db isn't exactly louder.
The response graph in post 50 appears to cut off higher than 20:
And isn't as smooth as:
I did say "when wattage is applied!"The response graph in post 50 appears to cut off higher than 20:
Here is your graph at 234wrms & 31mm xmax.
Notice, my 500wrms & 31mm graph is louder, flatter, & extends to about 150hz just like yours
Also, I thought your initial goal was 140dB's @ 20hz & less than 509L? My 4 sub 1 enclosure specs equal 351L per sub!!!
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I've been reading how people say the midbass is not peaky and the frequency response is flatter when they measure their TH's compared to HR's response curves. I think the difference is folks put all the wattage in the Eg field on the Input Parameters page instead of doing 1w/m and applying the wattage with Tools>Maximum SPL on the SPL Response page. That graph seems to be matching up with what they are measuring and hearing.
Hate to say it this so bluntly - but your approach and analysis is wrong.
Remember, the impedance of a speaker often varies with frequency, amps can only do so much to accommodate that. The Maximum SPL function in Hornresp does not behave that way. I explained it here.
The biggest problem with the Maximum SPL curve approach is that amps do not behave like the simulation. Amplifiers are usually a voltage source and apply a constant (based on gain settings) voltage to a varying impedance, which results in variation in current, and therefore wattage delivered. Hornresp is doing the opposite in this calculation, holding the watts constant and letting the driver have as much voltage as is required until the model reaches a thermal or mechanical limit.
My real-world measurements (and I have done a lot of them) agree with modeled results by varying Eg. For that matter, my plots often look very similar to what HornResp predicts. I am not the only one that has achieved this, but I have posted quite a few of the comparisons lately. The Max SPL tool is there to see where the thermal vs excursion limits are in a design, and whether or not a different approach needs to be investigated based on these limits, not to determine the maximum SPL of the enclosure in actual use with a real-world amplifier.
No.
It was explained here by the man himself.
I'm not trying to jump you here - honest.
I just want to set the record straight before anyone else gets further off the path here.
Alright littlemike, I'm trying to learn here. Based on the Eg (118.32) method, HR is saying that the 552L design can handle 3,500wrms @ 4 ohms & 31mm Xmax @ 30hz on the Diaphragm Displacement screen. As soon as I do Maximum SPL on the SPL Response screen, the Xmax jumps to 75mm Which screen should a person go by before cutting wood?
Which screen should a person go by before cutting wood?Compare the actual drive levels. Remember, the Max SPL tool looks for either the driver's thermal or excursion limit, it does not care about power.
Just use Eg to figure out the predicted performance of a cabinet. That is the real world, as real amps deliver a voltage (and as much current as they are capable of) to a given load.
Just use Eg to figure out the predicted performance of a cabinet. That is the real world, as real amps deliver a voltage (and as much current as they are capable of) to a given load.
Nope. 31 mm of xmax at 70% BL, xmech is 38.1 one way.
Pro-5100 NEO
Qts 0.245 Total Q
Qes 0.25 Electrical Q
Qms 6.9 Mechanical Q
Fs 26.5 Hertz, Free Air Resonance
Res 3.02 Ohms, DC resistance
Ls 2.8 H, series inductance
Lp 4.2 H, lossy series inductance
Rp 5.3 Ohms, loss across Lp
Dia 390 m meters, effective
Vas 251 liters, air volume equivalent
mms 287 grams, effective mass
cms 125 um/N, compliance
bl 23.8 T*m, motor strength
SplSens 94.5 dBSPL max @1W absorbed
Geometric Stroke 19.1 Millimeters, (voice coil - gap) / 2
70% BL 31.0 Millimeters, BL is 0.7 original value (one way)
Xmech 38.1 Mechanical displacement limit (one way)
Long Term Power 1000 Watts
Program Power 4000 Watts, short term peak power limit
From here.
Pro-5100 NEO
Qts 0.245 Total Q
Qes 0.25 Electrical Q
Qms 6.9 Mechanical Q
Fs 26.5 Hertz, Free Air Resonance
Res 3.02 Ohms, DC resistance
Ls 2.8 H, series inductance
Lp 4.2 H, lossy series inductance
Rp 5.3 Ohms, loss across Lp
Dia 390 m meters, effective
Vas 251 liters, air volume equivalent
mms 287 grams, effective mass
cms 125 um/N, compliance
bl 23.8 T*m, motor strength
SplSens 94.5 dBSPL max @1W absorbed
Geometric Stroke 19.1 Millimeters, (voice coil - gap) / 2
70% BL 31.0 Millimeters, BL is 0.7 original value (one way)
Xmech 38.1 Mechanical displacement limit (one way)
Long Term Power 1000 Watts
Program Power 4000 Watts, short term peak power limit
From here.
Cause I am in pursuit of the nastiest bin I can get.
This one may stay a bit of a secret till I have a measured final cab, its looking that sick.
I'd rather measure it and prove its worth before spilling the whole story, cause I could be wrong! Once it works out I'll drop build photos and graphs.
This one may stay a bit of a secret till I have a measured final cab, its looking that sick.
I'd rather measure it and prove its worth before spilling the whole story, cause I could be wrong! Once it works out I'll drop build photos and graphs.
Parameter 12" LMS-R Description
Qts 0.43 Total Q
Qes 0.46 Electrical Q
Qms 6.7 Mechanical Q
Fs 28 Hertz, Free Air Resonance
Res 3.96 Ohms, DC resistance
Ls 4.7 H, series inductance
Lp 7.7 H, lossy series inductance
Rp 5.1 Ohms, loss across Lp
Dia 250 m meters, effective
Vas 39 liters, air volume equivalent
mms 280 grams, effective mass
cms 115 um/N, compliance
bl 20.5 T*m, motor strength
SplSens 84.5 dBSPL max @1W absorbed
Geometric Stroke 24.1 Millimeters, (voice coil - gap) / 2
70% BL 29.4 Millimeters, BL is 0.7 original value (one way)
Xmech 39.4 Mechanical displacement limit (one way)
Long Term Power 1000 Watts
Program Power 4000 Watts, short term peak power limit
Qts 0.43 Total Q
Qes 0.46 Electrical Q
Qms 6.7 Mechanical Q
Fs 28 Hertz, Free Air Resonance
Res 3.96 Ohms, DC resistance
Ls 4.7 H, series inductance
Lp 7.7 H, lossy series inductance
Rp 5.1 Ohms, loss across Lp
Dia 250 m meters, effective
Vas 39 liters, air volume equivalent
mms 280 grams, effective mass
cms 115 um/N, compliance
bl 20.5 T*m, motor strength
SplSens 84.5 dBSPL max @1W absorbed
Geometric Stroke 24.1 Millimeters, (voice coil - gap) / 2
70% BL 29.4 Millimeters, BL is 0.7 original value (one way)
Xmech 39.4 Mechanical displacement limit (one way)
Long Term Power 1000 Watts
Program Power 4000 Watts, short term peak power limit
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