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Old 24th February 2010, 08:49 PM   #1
Loren42 is offline Loren42  United States
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Default Woofer digression from Real or Self-appointed Expert

This discussion split off from Real Expert or Just Self Proclaimed

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Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post
How would that address issues between 100-300hz? The multi subs can't be used too high without localization issues and if only eq is to be used in this upper range, it will be single point, in which case you could have used just one sub.
Mid bass is easy compared to the bottom end. I think there are many more good woofers you can work with than there are really good low frequency woofers with the extend throw needed for assisted designs.
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Old 24th February 2010, 08:58 PM   #2
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
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Originally Posted by Loren42 View Post
Mid bass is easy compared to the bottom end. I think there are many more good woofers you can work with than there are really good low frequency woofers with the extend throw needed for assisted designs.
You have misunderstood what I said. Mid bass cannot be multi-sourced spatially smoothed without localization, like <100hz can. Hence the EQ Dr Geddes suggests. But that will be (most probably) single point effective, in a sweet spot, in which case the same can be done for <100 with a single sub.
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Old 24th February 2010, 09:17 PM   #3
gedlee is online now gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post
How would that address issues between 100-300hz? The multi subs can't be used too high without localization issues and if only eq is to be used in this upper range, it will be single point, in which case you could have used just one sub.
Not 300 Hz, but higher than 100 Hz, of course it's all room dependent. I have not had localization issues with multiple subs and I've done several and have lots of happy customers who use the technique. Single point is not what I do, and no, one sub won't work nearly as well as multiple subs, not ever.
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Old 25th February 2010, 07:58 PM   #4
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
and no, one sub won't work nearly as well as multiple subs, not ever.
For a single listener, one sub with eq, placed in immediate proximity (such as directly beside them) won't "work nearly as well" as multiple subs? In what way?
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Old 25th February 2010, 08:42 PM   #5
gedlee is online now gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post
For a single listener, one sub with eq, placed in immediate proximity (such as directly beside them) won't "work nearly as well" as multiple subs? In what way?
The closer the sub is to you the more readily it is localizable, which aggravates the problem that you mentioned before. Putting a single sub farther away is going to have a poor spatial and frequency response in the room. I don't do anything aimed at a single listener - thats pretty much a waste of time - and multiple subs work extremely well for the entire room. Its the only solution that I have found works all the time.
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Old 25th February 2010, 09:07 PM   #6
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My experience is that a single near field subwoofer works extremely well for a single listening location. Multiple subwoofers are pretty hard to set up if you don't have measuring equipment.

Best, Markus
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Old 25th February 2010, 09:27 PM   #7
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
I don't do anything aimed at a single listener - thats pretty much a waste of time - and multiple subs work extremely well for the entire room. Its the only solution that I have found works all the time.
Ok, so how does multi-subs address multiple listeners for 100-300hz?
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Old 25th February 2010, 09:31 PM   #8
gedlee is online now gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
My experience is that a single near field subwoofer works extremely well for a single listening location. Multiple subwoofers are pretty hard to set up if you don't have measuring equipment.

Best, Markus
That could be, I've never tried it owing to the fact, as I said, that I see no point in doing designs for a "single listener". Thats a dead end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post
Ok, so how does multi-subs address multiple listeners for 100-300hz?
I never said anything about 300 Hz, but lets talk modal region, regardless of where it is. In the modal region multiple subs will yield a smoother frequency response both spatially and spectrally. There are so many papers and so much discussion about this that I don't want to repeat it all here, unless there is some part of it that you don't understand.
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Old 25th February 2010, 10:31 PM   #9
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
That could be, I've never tried it owing to the fact, as I said, that I see no point in doing designs for a "single listener". Thats a dead end.
Most forum members here are interested in a "dead end" (..as you put it).

In the home for such members occasional "non-critical" music listening use may account for a moderate percentage of listening - i.e. "back ground music listening" where other additional listeners are concerned. But then it is *non-critical*. The rest of the time music listening is pretty much devoted to a "single listener" (..with perhaps an *exceedingly* critical listening experience).

In other words - dual use, but dual expectations.

There are of course "critical" Car listener systems that "buck" this trend, and the occasional Hi Fi enthusiast that wants Audio Multi-Channel/Video as a critical experience. But overall they represent something of an aberration to their general market. (..i.e. not to many people want a Home Theater system where each speaker costs about 1k US (or more), and is larger than a hand-sized cube. And those in the "Car" segment that are willing to spend significant amounts are usually in pursuit of compact systems that can produce high output.)

Now who's target market is a "dead end"?
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Old 25th February 2010, 10:51 PM   #10
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I could have sworn that there's a current thread (aka not this one) where the topic was single vs multiple subs...?
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