Hello Audio fanatics,
I'm new to this very interresting and educating forum, I've read some articles 'bout sobwoofer construction, and already made an entire PA system based on eminece speakers.
Now we (a party maker colective) going on tour, and we need some compact and high spl PA for about 500 persons gigs, we do mostly electronic sound techno, trance, and harder styles....
I was thinking about some manifold design like EV MT-4, but after reading a few posts, im not shure if it would be better to make some labhorns?
The point i've watchted out for those mt-4 like enclosure plans is to get maximum spl out of minimum size, but now i understand that some labhorns could get the same performance with less speakers, what obviusly would consist in less amplifiers? Also budget plays a role!!!!
So if labhorns are better, what kind of tops should I choose for them?
Have anybody some plans for some manifold enclosure for 4 15" speakers ( in the best case with plans for tuned tops (similar like EV MT-4 style)?
Or any tips where te get some?
Or what would be the adecuate manner to calculate them (MT-4 style)?
As you can see I'm actally a bit lost about it, and would apreciate every help and info i can get.
Thanks in advantage, and lets shake it!!!
I'm new to this very interresting and educating forum, I've read some articles 'bout sobwoofer construction, and already made an entire PA system based on eminece speakers.
Now we (a party maker colective) going on tour, and we need some compact and high spl PA for about 500 persons gigs, we do mostly electronic sound techno, trance, and harder styles....
I was thinking about some manifold design like EV MT-4, but after reading a few posts, im not shure if it would be better to make some labhorns?
The point i've watchted out for those mt-4 like enclosure plans is to get maximum spl out of minimum size, but now i understand that some labhorns could get the same performance with less speakers, what obviusly would consist in less amplifiers? Also budget plays a role!!!!
So if labhorns are better, what kind of tops should I choose for them?
Have anybody some plans for some manifold enclosure for 4 15" speakers ( in the best case with plans for tuned tops (similar like EV MT-4 style)?
Or any tips where te get some?
Or what would be the adecuate manner to calculate them (MT-4 style)?
As you can see I'm actally a bit lost about it, and would apreciate every help and info i can get.
Thanks in advantage, and lets shake it!!!
I'd also have a look at the Bill Fitzmaurice website www.billfitzmaurice.com and have a look at his tuba lines. Serious output, thunderous bottom end and best of all require less than half the power of my conventional ported EBS sub to get the same SPL with the same driver. Though not small they will more than make up for it in qulity and quantity of bass.
Horns are great if you have a semi-trailer rig and a show big enough to use it all. You can hit 50% efficiency with a large stack of horns.
But they don't work at all well used just one or two.
A group of MTL boxes can hit 25% efficiency, and in a fairly small stack. One cabinet will go just as deep in the bass (which doesn't happen with the horn), just at reduced efficiency.
One Titan 48 (BFM):
Here is a dual 15 manifold type box I designed many years ago:
I had custom Eminence drivers made for them, and a stacked pair are 3dB down at 31hz and 107dB/2.83V/1M (2W into 4R). Even though I have twelve of these boxes, I seldom use more than two boxes per side (unless doing a huge outdoor event).
But they don't work at all well used just one or two.
A group of MTL boxes can hit 25% efficiency, and in a fairly small stack. One cabinet will go just as deep in the bass (which doesn't happen with the horn), just at reduced efficiency.
One Titan 48 (BFM):
Here is a dual 15 manifold type box I designed many years ago:
I had custom Eminence drivers made for them, and a stacked pair are 3dB down at 31hz and 107dB/2.83V/1M (2W into 4R). Even though I have twelve of these boxes, I seldom use more than two boxes per side (unless doing a huge outdoor event).
I like your design of these boxes, I plan on building one to see if it fits my needs (different size and response). I am curious how high you can run them cleanly at max spl. The boxes I am using now is not suited for what I am asking of them. I also will be using them for EDM.
Hmmmm, djk, I run two BFM Tuba Home Theater Subs (THT) loaded with 12" Peerless XLS drivers. Corner loaded I get 115dB at 20Hz... and above that is downright sickening ... with one sub, two is outright retarded. I've had the pleasure of auditioning manifold based pro subs before, and due to the direct radiating nature of the drivers found them too punchy and when overdriven did not take it gracefully. Yes the T48 or T36 is huge, yes they are better run in stacks just as any pro sound sub should be run, v couple a pair of T36's and I'd put them up against your Manifold subs any day, and when the going gets tough and the manifold subs tend to sound harsh, the tuba loaded sub will still sound effortless and clean. Yes this can be a downfall also as you don't hear the driver stressing, but if your a DJ or a sound tech your going to use limiters anyway. I worked in the Audio industry for years and have had the opportunity to audition lots of good subs, From plain Jane ported to EBS ported designs, from bandpass, Sealed ELF assisted, to huge horn loaded subs. I've yet to find a sub that has the same CLEAN output with a SINGLE driver than the BFM THT, I'd put my single 12" loaded 16"W THT against any 2 15"ers in a conventional box and still be confident the THT will outperforn them.
I guess for me it comes down to performance from one driver in a dedicated cabinet more so than it does when you load several drivers in a smaller cabinet to get the same output and range. I guess it's a personal flavor type of thing, but I'll stick with the BFM THT for a bit thanks, Peace.
EXIT:
I guess for me it comes down to performance from one driver in a dedicated cabinet more so than it does when you load several drivers in a smaller cabinet to get the same output and range. I guess it's a personal flavor type of thing, but I'll stick with the BFM THT for a bit thanks, Peace.
EXIT:
Just to be clear, I had the chance to listen to 4 BFM Tuba 24's in a pro setup and also 4 Tuba 36's (monster). With the 4 T24's in a 3500Sq/ft room with 10ft ceilings there was enough output to blurr my vision and make talking a fun task and these are small subs. With the 4 Tuba 36's I was close to being sick from some of the bass passages and with a whopping 500W per side. Walls where shaking, doors heaving, dust falling from god knows where and neighbors from 1/2 block down the road were outside looking for the earthquake causing sound LOL. If I had to gather a guess I'd say they were hitting a good 135-40dB at 30-40Hz minimum, all without a meter of course.
I'll base my argument this way, with the amount of money you save on drivers for the Mani's your more than capable of building several Tuba 24 subs, and still being under what a quad stack of Manifolds will cost due to drive costs. I can assure you that if you build 4 Tuba subs with single drivers, and 4 manifold subs each using two drivers, you'd ask youself why you paid for the extra drivers for the Mani's. Not all Horns are huge, why not look for performance based build on a paupers budget?
I'll base my argument this way, with the amount of money you save on drivers for the Mani's your more than capable of building several Tuba 24 subs, and still being under what a quad stack of Manifolds will cost due to drive costs. I can assure you that if you build 4 Tuba subs with single drivers, and 4 manifold subs each using two drivers, you'd ask youself why you paid for the extra drivers for the Mani's. Not all Horns are huge, why not look for performance based build on a paupers budget?
Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
equal loudness to 80db@1k, is downright sickening? I guess everyone has a different interpretation of what is too loud... (and yes, I've built stacks of BFM subs before... THT's, T39's, even 36" wide T36's... I know what they sound like... pass.)
http://www.audioroundtable.com/ProSpeakers/messages/250.html
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80dB at 1kHz single tone is actually pretty obnoxious.
115 dB (or even 130) at 30 Hz is easier on the ears.
HEHEHEHE I see you know what I mean with Spl....
Other question what about sound quality? For example I'm in love with the dry and defined Sound of the HK Subs, what would be the best manner to get a sound like that? Any idea?
Other question what about sound quality? For example I'm in love with the dry and defined Sound of the HK Subs, what would be the best manner to get a sound like that? Any idea?
jbell,
Yeah a garbage truck outside on the street is pretty annoying also, but not nearly as annoying as gut wrenching bottom end 😀.
What are you basing your impressions against? I've had many a sub come through my door, and as it stands I'd put the THT in my top 3. Just curious but what about the sound of the BFM subs do you not like, they tend to do everything right in my room....
Thanks for the objective opinions I appreciate another side, but I just need more to understand why you don't like them....
Yeah a garbage truck outside on the street is pretty annoying also, but not nearly as annoying as gut wrenching bottom end 😀.
What are you basing your impressions against? I've had many a sub come through my door, and as it stands I'd put the THT in my top 3. Just curious but what about the sound of the BFM subs do you not like, they tend to do everything right in my room....
Thanks for the objective opinions I appreciate another side, but I just need more to understand why you don't like them....
RAWDATA -
Your going to be playing more kick than sub with techno,psy, and most other styles of trance. So that will make it easier. Not having to have 20-40Hz at high levels.
Next thing is What are you traveling in? How much actual space is there for a PA?
That will be the determining factor. Second will be money. Third thing is POWER. Unless your playing real venues, which I suspect isn't the case (IE a performance hall / theater)
you might want to consider how much power your rig will need.
DJK - you gonna release plans for those manifolds?
I think I asked before sometime ago.
Though not much different than the TH Mini. Sides the Freq. 31hz Vs 43 -DB point. Same SPL per # cabs/watts. Though 2 Vs 4 drivers ... still I like to play.
HD15's are spot on for techno/trance.
As is the Punisher's (speakerplans.com) My current setup consist of 4 TH Mini clones with 2/4 15"/1" mid/highs. The subs cross over at 42 Hz / 200 Hz. I use pole to get the height on the tops. DCX w/ Crown XLS 600 and Berry 4K with a Furman on power control. I keep it in the 120-125 DB level. (room dependent) That all fits in a Legacy Wagon with a few lights.
speakrsrfun -
what type of music you play threw them?
Your going to be playing more kick than sub with techno,psy, and most other styles of trance. So that will make it easier. Not having to have 20-40Hz at high levels.
Next thing is What are you traveling in? How much actual space is there for a PA?
That will be the determining factor. Second will be money. Third thing is POWER. Unless your playing real venues, which I suspect isn't the case (IE a performance hall / theater)
you might want to consider how much power your rig will need.
DJK - you gonna release plans for those manifolds?
I think I asked before sometime ago.
Though not much different than the TH Mini. Sides the Freq. 31hz Vs 43 -DB point. Same SPL per # cabs/watts. Though 2 Vs 4 drivers ... still I like to play.
HD15's are spot on for techno/trance.
As is the Punisher's (speakerplans.com) My current setup consist of 4 TH Mini clones with 2/4 15"/1" mid/highs. The subs cross over at 42 Hz / 200 Hz. I use pole to get the height on the tops. DCX w/ Crown XLS 600 and Berry 4K with a Furman on power control. I keep it in the 120-125 DB level. (room dependent) That all fits in a Legacy Wagon with a few lights.
speakrsrfun -
what type of music you play threw them?
FlipC, there is enough space to move the PA, my point is about a fast mounting, as we doing Raves there is not much time to mount the PA, sometimes we have to mount the same PA two times in a night... becouse of this it would be very welcome to have lots of power in just one enclosure, would a manifold system with 4 speakers like MT-4 play as loud as conventional vented subs?
Money plays a role, but i could get a few chassis at a good price, so its not most important thing.
The next thing is that we play varius styles of music, from trance to hardtechno to hardcore to light and instrumental Hip hop like Ninja Tunes for example, i guess this would requiere certain linearity in the frequency response, but the PA would be for shure active crossovered so i think this can be done individually for each act by an digital speakermanagment system.
Money plays a role, but i could get a few chassis at a good price, so its not most important thing.
The next thing is that we play varius styles of music, from trance to hardtechno to hardcore to light and instrumental Hip hop like Ninja Tunes for example, i guess this would requiere certain linearity in the frequency response, but the PA would be for shure active crossovered so i think this can be done individually for each act by an digital speakermanagment system.
Apologies to all for an OT post... but need to answer a q.
I usually don't like bashing others designs, so I keep my opinions to myself, however, I like flat to 40hz. And the typical BFM design is -13db at 40hz vs 100hz by design. You need to run a stack to get that close to flattening out, v-plate them, AND find a corner. Consider what the equal loudness curve does from 40hz to 100hz, and you can see why that kind of sub doesn't sit well with me when I have to play outdoors. That, and the 'tweaky' spl charts that BFM has put me in a bad spot one time.... With the help of some great guys, I came up with a dirt simple design that creams anything BFM has single cabinet at 40hz. So, I guess I can just say, there's better, I'll pass.
Appologize, Bahhahaha, it's audio related and I needed clarification, I'm sorry if I put you out 😉. Thanks for the input Jbell, I do appreciate your reply. See I run these two THT indoor mainly for music but also for theater applications, one in each apossing corner. I guess when your looking for live sound re-enforcment outdoor in open space the design needs would be different, in room these subs are quite musical and I can't get much lower for Home Theater. I don't know maybe my 25 years of audio experience and old ears need a superior design for me to notice an improvement over what I already consider a drastic improvement over the XLS/Slave setup or huge EBS the XLS's where in before, are you offering any designs up here jbell 😀 ? Not trying to be krass just trying to understand how the manifold design is that much better then the BFM designs when the manifold is designed to be used in a stack also, uses 2 drive units each not one, and with the direct radiating nature of the design distortion seems to be more of an issue than the THT. Anyway not that I want to have a ******* match I'm just trying to wrap my brain around your statement without having any solid data look at to back it up. Anywhere you can send me to educate myslef would be appreciated, Thanks again.
"I like your design of these boxes, I plan on building one to see if it fits my needs (different size and response). I am curious how high you can run them cleanly at max spl. "
You can run them all the way up to amplifier clipping, or x-max, whatever. Mine are tuned very low, so it's usually x-max. Because they are push-pull you can push them beyond x-max without gross distortion, just don't push them into x-mech (clank!).
"them too punchy"
Too punchy? Use a compressor if you don't like the dynamics in the program material.
"and when overdriven did not take it gracefully. "
See above. It seems you have never tried push-pull, they sound much cleaner than a traditional horn when overdriven. Wayne Parham has built a push-pull version for his 12Pi horn, and makes the same observation as regards distortion.
"I worked in the Audio industry for years and have had the opportunity to audition lots of good subs, From plain Jane ported to EBS ported designs, from bandpass, Sealed ELF assisted, to huge horn loaded subs. I've yet to find a sub that has the same CLEAN output with a SINGLE driver than the BFM THT, I'd put my single 12" loaded 16"W THT against any 2 15"ers in a conventional box and still be confident the THT will outperforn them. "
Meaningless, two drivers are needed for push-pull (and all my designs are push-pull slot loaded, PPSL).
"I was close to being sick from some of the bass passages and with a whopping 500W per side. "
3,500 square feet with a 10 foot ceiling is much smaller than the room shown in my photo. That room was 14,400 square feet with a 14 foot ceiling and had 3,000 people in it (at the peak of the evening). As you can also see from the photo there was only 187.5W per woofer available (Crest V1500).
"all without a meter of course."
I have several spectrum analyzers, but can't compare the numbers with your seat-of-the-pants measurements.
"Not all Horns are huge,"
Correct, they are called mid-range horns.
"you'd ask youself why you paid for the extra drivers for the Mani's."
PPSL allows you to use less expensive drivers, and get superior results. The cabinets are much simpler to build (no angles). How much is your time worth?
"Other question what about sound quality? "
PPSL makes ordinary horn or direct radiator subs sound muddy and distorted.
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Posted by Les Hudson ( M ) ) on January 4, 2009 at 19:04:39
In Reply to: nice job !!!!!!!!! posted by Norman Bates on January 4, 2009 at 17:47:51:
I was expecting it to take some time to get aquainted with the way that it sounds but I knew within seconds that it was what I wanted. It's cleaner , faster and the kind of bass that usually comes from servo systems. I'm even able to drive the woofers much harder before cone break up.
My actual tuning came out to 33hz. and they sound very linear up to 400hz. Thanks
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Posted by Norman Bates (A ) on January 4, 2009 at 21:32:17
In Reply to: RE: nice job !!!!!!!!! posted by Les Hudson on January 4, 2009 at 19:04:39:
cleaner, faster, those are perfect words I agree upon. Remember my ppsl ported to 27hz (6th order) was cleaner, faster, and deeper than my friends 3 x 10" jl audio subs (sealed .707) in his small pickup. He wasn't happy. How can a ported design be cleaner and quicker than 10" woofers? 18's are huge and much more heavy, right ? especially some $100 eminence drivers....... but with that much sensitive cone area, the drivers arn't moving unless you are cranking it. And ports reduce excursion. No driver motion = low distortion, and push pull knocks that distortion below that even.
And the ppsl 18's I had blew my builder away. Carrying them in he was scowling. "I've never liked 18's." After hearing them he said "I've never heard 18's that clean before."
Yup, sort of blows a hole in the transient response of sealed vs ported arguement. The crossover so much phase shift, 5ms vs 15ms for a subwoofer (ported vs sealed) will be swamped by how fast the room gives up its energy. My subs would start and stop then the windows / roof of the room had to ring down.
Norman
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"DJK - you gonna release plans for those manifolds?"
High Efficiency Speaker Asylum - Plan - djk - December 29, 2008 at 16:17:55
Les Hudson and his dual 12s (that replaced larger folded horns):
You can run them all the way up to amplifier clipping, or x-max, whatever. Mine are tuned very low, so it's usually x-max. Because they are push-pull you can push them beyond x-max without gross distortion, just don't push them into x-mech (clank!).
"them too punchy"
Too punchy? Use a compressor if you don't like the dynamics in the program material.
"and when overdriven did not take it gracefully. "
See above. It seems you have never tried push-pull, they sound much cleaner than a traditional horn when overdriven. Wayne Parham has built a push-pull version for his 12Pi horn, and makes the same observation as regards distortion.
"I worked in the Audio industry for years and have had the opportunity to audition lots of good subs, From plain Jane ported to EBS ported designs, from bandpass, Sealed ELF assisted, to huge horn loaded subs. I've yet to find a sub that has the same CLEAN output with a SINGLE driver than the BFM THT, I'd put my single 12" loaded 16"W THT against any 2 15"ers in a conventional box and still be confident the THT will outperforn them. "
Meaningless, two drivers are needed for push-pull (and all my designs are push-pull slot loaded, PPSL).
"I was close to being sick from some of the bass passages and with a whopping 500W per side. "
3,500 square feet with a 10 foot ceiling is much smaller than the room shown in my photo. That room was 14,400 square feet with a 14 foot ceiling and had 3,000 people in it (at the peak of the evening). As you can also see from the photo there was only 187.5W per woofer available (Crest V1500).
"all without a meter of course."
I have several spectrum analyzers, but can't compare the numbers with your seat-of-the-pants measurements.
"Not all Horns are huge,"
Correct, they are called mid-range horns.
"you'd ask youself why you paid for the extra drivers for the Mani's."
PPSL allows you to use less expensive drivers, and get superior results. The cabinets are much simpler to build (no angles). How much is your time worth?
"Other question what about sound quality? "
PPSL makes ordinary horn or direct radiator subs sound muddy and distorted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Les Hudson ( M ) ) on January 4, 2009 at 19:04:39
In Reply to: nice job !!!!!!!!! posted by Norman Bates on January 4, 2009 at 17:47:51:
I was expecting it to take some time to get aquainted with the way that it sounds but I knew within seconds that it was what I wanted. It's cleaner , faster and the kind of bass that usually comes from servo systems. I'm even able to drive the woofers much harder before cone break up.
My actual tuning came out to 33hz. and they sound very linear up to 400hz. Thanks
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Norman Bates (A ) on January 4, 2009 at 21:32:17
In Reply to: RE: nice job !!!!!!!!! posted by Les Hudson on January 4, 2009 at 19:04:39:
cleaner, faster, those are perfect words I agree upon. Remember my ppsl ported to 27hz (6th order) was cleaner, faster, and deeper than my friends 3 x 10" jl audio subs (sealed .707) in his small pickup. He wasn't happy. How can a ported design be cleaner and quicker than 10" woofers? 18's are huge and much more heavy, right ? especially some $100 eminence drivers....... but with that much sensitive cone area, the drivers arn't moving unless you are cranking it. And ports reduce excursion. No driver motion = low distortion, and push pull knocks that distortion below that even.
And the ppsl 18's I had blew my builder away. Carrying them in he was scowling. "I've never liked 18's." After hearing them he said "I've never heard 18's that clean before."
Yup, sort of blows a hole in the transient response of sealed vs ported arguement. The crossover so much phase shift, 5ms vs 15ms for a subwoofer (ported vs sealed) will be swamped by how fast the room gives up its energy. My subs would start and stop then the windows / roof of the room had to ring down.
Norman
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"DJK - you gonna release plans for those manifolds?"
High Efficiency Speaker Asylum - Plan - djk - December 29, 2008 at 16:17:55
Les Hudson and his dual 12s (that replaced larger folded horns):
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In that case, BFM subs aren't the right answer. A stack of 4 the physical size of a T36 Slim (which is reasonable) can be made to go down to 40 flat if that's all you want out of them. Two boxes if you load it against a wall. It just requires a different trade-off in the design. If 40 Hz is all you want or need then you just want a box with an 8 foot path length, not 13. That box will be samller. If the HD15's are even considered for the app, then a horn that brick-walls at 40 would certainly be up to the task. It's no worse than a pair of 2x18's - you have to high pass those at 40 if you want them to survive a CA18.
I'm building new quad of horns specifically for doing school dances - where the labs are just overkill and the reflex boxes start distorting. It's designed around a 38 Hz cutoff, Kappa P15LF2 driver (already have these on hand, as well as 8 sheets of BB), 36x36x22.5 form factor. The goal is all 4 in the bed of an F150. It's in computer modeling and layout - won't be cutting wood till Spring due to weather.
Thank you DJK, something I can live with fact wise 😉 . I appreciate the time and effort to help me understand the advantages over the THT. I may give this a try with some 12"s for home use. Thanks again.
"I like your design of these boxes, I plan on building one to see if it fits my needs (different size and response). I am curious how high you can run them cleanly at max spl. "
You can run them all the way up to amplifier clipping, or x-max, whatever. Mine are tuned very low, so it's usually x-max. Because they are push-pull you can push them beyond x-max without gross distortion, just don't push them into x-mech (clank!).
"them too punchy"
Too punchy? Use a compressor if you don't like the dynamics in the program material.
"and when overdriven did not take it gracefully. "
See above. It seems you have never tried push-pull, they sound much cleaner than a traditional horn when overdriven. Wayne Parham has built a push-pull version for his 12Pi horn, and makes the same observation as regards distortion.
"I worked in the Audio industry for years and have had the opportunity to audition lots of good subs, From plain Jane ported to EBS ported designs, from bandpass, Sealed ELF assisted, to huge horn loaded subs. I've yet to find a sub that has the same CLEAN output with a SINGLE driver than the BFM THT, I'd put my single 12" loaded 16"W THT against any 2 15"ers in a conventional box and still be confident the THT will outperforn them. "
Meaningless, two drivers are needed for push-pull (and all my designs are push-pull slot loaded, PPSL).
"I was close to being sick from some of the bass passages and with a whopping 500W per side. "
3,500 square feet with a 10 foot ceiling is much smaller than the room shown in my photo. That room was 14,400 square feet with a 14 foot ceiling and had 3,000 people in it (at the peak of the evening). As you can also see from the photo there was only 187.5W per woofer available (Crest V1500).
"all without a meter of course."
I have several spectrum analyzers, but can't compare the numbers with your seat-of-the-pants measurements.
"Not all Horns are huge,"
Correct, they are called mid-range horns.
"you'd ask youself why you paid for the extra drivers for the Mani's."
PPSL allows you to use less expensive drivers, and get superior results. The cabinets are much simpler to build (no angles). How much is your time worth?
"Other question what about sound quality? "
PPSL makes ordinary horn or direct radiator subs sound muddy and distorted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Les Hudson ( M ) ) on January 4, 2009 at 19:04:39
In Reply to: nice job !!!!!!!!! posted by Norman Bates on January 4, 2009 at 17:47:51:
I was expecting it to take some time to get aquainted with the way that it sounds but I knew within seconds that it was what I wanted. It's cleaner , faster and the kind of bass that usually comes from servo systems. I'm even able to drive the woofers much harder before cone break up.
My actual tuning came out to 33hz. and they sound very linear up to 400hz. Thanks
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Norman Bates (A ) on January 4, 2009 at 21:32:17
In Reply to: RE: nice job !!!!!!!!! posted by Les Hudson on January 4, 2009 at 19:04:39:
cleaner, faster, those are perfect words I agree upon. Remember my ppsl ported to 27hz (6th order) was cleaner, faster, and deeper than my friends 3 x 10" jl audio subs (sealed .707) in his small pickup. He wasn't happy. How can a ported design be cleaner and quicker than 10" woofers? 18's are huge and much more heavy, right ? especially some $100 eminence drivers....... but with that much sensitive cone area, the drivers arn't moving unless you are cranking it. And ports reduce excursion. No driver motion = low distortion, and push pull knocks that distortion below that even.
And the ppsl 18's I had blew my builder away. Carrying them in he was scowling. "I've never liked 18's." After hearing them he said "I've never heard 18's that clean before."
Yup, sort of blows a hole in the transient response of sealed vs ported arguement. The crossover so much phase shift, 5ms vs 15ms for a subwoofer (ported vs sealed) will be swamped by how fast the room gives up its energy. My subs would start and stop then the windows / roof of the room had to ring down.
Norman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"DJK - you gonna release plans for those manifolds?"
High Efficiency Speaker Asylum - Plan - djk - December 29, 2008 at 16:17:55
Les Hudson and his dual 12s (that replaced larger folded horns):
7.5' long T36 or something you designed?
You seen this?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ecific-tapped-horn-thread-54.html#post1829572
Thanks for posting thew link DJK.
Those Hudson setup is sweet looking.
These should be fine in the 160-200 Hz range.
Pretty simple build. You could use more expensive drivers to gain SPL (if needed)
Something like the Caire 12SW.
DJK - ever sim the Lab12 in that ?
Those Hudson setup is sweet looking.
These should be fine in the 160-200 Hz range.
Pretty simple build. You could use more expensive drivers to gain SPL (if needed)
Something like the Caire 12SW.
DJK - ever sim the Lab12 in that ?
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