Hey all,
I been lookin at some of the amazing subs the auto/mobile electronic industry is using, specifically, the JL audio 13w7, and dc audio level 4 and 5
these machines are truly amazing, with claims of 16k watts to burst, they have the none accordian type foam rubber surrounds, the car application seems to use these subs to get a uncompressed BOOMMMMMMM SOUND, which is long,, which i am not interest in. Im looking for a compressed "KUNK", very short , hard, KICK DRUM reproduction, a couple compressers in series microphone in kik drum, maybe two one by the hammer and one in the front hole,. I will probably never abuse them like these car application will.( probably a pair of 18s with 1200 watts a side, mostly sleeping..) questions... (a) is there anything obviously problematic, with my description? with the none accordian type of surround, longevity? any ideas, feedback? all is appreciated... thanx Don Metz yhvh@hotmail.com
I been lookin at some of the amazing subs the auto/mobile electronic industry is using, specifically, the JL audio 13w7, and dc audio level 4 and 5
these machines are truly amazing, with claims of 16k watts to burst, they have the none accordian type foam rubber surrounds, the car application seems to use these subs to get a uncompressed BOOMMMMMMM SOUND, which is long,, which i am not interest in. Im looking for a compressed "KUNK", very short , hard, KICK DRUM reproduction, a couple compressers in series microphone in kik drum, maybe two one by the hammer and one in the front hole,. I will probably never abuse them like these car application will.( probably a pair of 18s with 1200 watts a side, mostly sleeping..) questions... (a) is there anything obviously problematic, with my description? with the none accordian type of surround, longevity? any ideas, feedback? all is appreciated... thanx Don Metz yhvh@hotmail.com
Could you use them in a pro situation, yes. Typically these competition woofers have very stiff suspensions, and rather high mass This means they are rather low in efficiency and probably won't go all that low without the cabin gain you get in a car. Often the comp woofers have 1 or 2 ohm coils to get the sensitivity up... Pro woofers are just about exactly the opposite of that.
Would you get the sound you want, perhaps, but maybe not. There is a page out there where a gentleman used a hifi woofer for a small bass guitar rig and had good success.
Compact Bass Guitar Speaker Bottom
To be honest, it is not exactly clear what you want to do. Is this for a PA?
Would you get the sound you want, perhaps, but maybe not. There is a page out there where a gentleman used a hifi woofer for a small bass guitar rig and had good success.
Compact Bass Guitar Speaker Bottom
To be honest, it is not exactly clear what you want to do. Is this for a PA?
Last edited:
car sub, in pro/p.a application
Thanx so much for responding, yes im in a band, and the application would be a p.a set up in a medium sized room, say under 200 people typical. Currently for my mains speakers i been using a pair of Yamaha sw215, which is two 15" drivers with a hundred watt horn on top,we've tryed options of dual 15" jbl 2225h x 2 under the yamaha, they were in the biggest custom cabs ive ever been dumb enough to buy, lol got the unloaded cab for 100.00 with a cruise to pik em up, they are kinda cool , they got a big dual front throw fiberglass horn structure inside a huge wood cab sprayed with fiber glass,..they weigh a ton, and have to pounded through a 3/0 door. We just got 1 set of single peavey black widow 18s, in straight throw box with a 3" open port across the bottom of the cab. they do nice stuff for lowering our band with, but minimum "kunk".. i may be wanting something that you dont get with less than 10,000 watts for subs. my power is a carver pt1800, 1100 a side,. and a new crown 4000, which does 1200 a side or 3200 mono.. my other option is change the jbl 2225hs to a different cab, i was drawing a dual 15, down fireing scoop, which i think i can make less than 22" tall,. truly this is not my arena, im a electrician, lol. but i love messing w sound, im in the wrong field
Thanx so much for responding, yes im in a band, and the application would be a p.a set up in a medium sized room, say under 200 people typical. Currently for my mains speakers i been using a pair of Yamaha sw215, which is two 15" drivers with a hundred watt horn on top,we've tryed options of dual 15" jbl 2225h x 2 under the yamaha, they were in the biggest custom cabs ive ever been dumb enough to buy, lol got the unloaded cab for 100.00 with a cruise to pik em up, they are kinda cool , they got a big dual front throw fiberglass horn structure inside a huge wood cab sprayed with fiber glass,..they weigh a ton, and have to pounded through a 3/0 door. We just got 1 set of single peavey black widow 18s, in straight throw box with a 3" open port across the bottom of the cab. they do nice stuff for lowering our band with, but minimum "kunk".. i may be wanting something that you dont get with less than 10,000 watts for subs. my power is a carver pt1800, 1100 a side,. and a new crown 4000, which does 1200 a side or 3200 mono.. my other option is change the jbl 2225hs to a different cab, i was drawing a dual 15, down fireing scoop, which i think i can make less than 22" tall,. truly this is not my arena, im a electrician, lol. but i love messing w sound, im in the wrong field
is this close to what you are looking for?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ecific-tapped-horn-thread-67.html#post1927085
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ecific-tapped-horn-thread-59.html#post1834095
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ecific-tapped-horn-thread-67.html#post1927085
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ecific-tapped-horn-thread-59.html#post1834095
Sounds like you need to read this.
PA Systems
A kickbin would probably take care of the "kick" part of "kunk".
A well designed TH for the "umph" part.
And I would not do anything that would need more than one outlet or circuit breaker.
Meaning good efficiency instead of megawatts of power.
PA Systems
A kickbin would probably take care of the "kick" part of "kunk".
A well designed TH for the "umph" part.
And I would not do anything that would need more than one outlet or circuit breaker.
Meaning good efficiency instead of megawatts of power.
There may some drivers with "pro" efficiency lurking in the car audio realm... maybe someone has compiled a table of all the known woofers in the universe and calculated reference efficiency from the T-S parameters.
Consider a bandpass box tuned for 60 to 120 (or even just 80 to 120 Hz).
And Speakerplans.com; there's plans there, and a lot of practical advice.
Consider a bandpass box tuned for 60 to 120 (or even just 80 to 120 Hz).
And Speakerplans.com; there's plans there, and a lot of practical advice.
kick-bin noun (kik - bin):
1. Cabinet style that cannot play 40hz.
2. Cabinet style that is loud as hell at 100-120hz. (aka, in the 'kick' range.)
3. 2nd cabinet in a 4-way system.
see also:
Speakerplans.com
(apologies for my weak attempt at humor)
1. Cabinet style that cannot play 40hz.
2. Cabinet style that is loud as hell at 100-120hz. (aka, in the 'kick' range.)
3. 2nd cabinet in a 4-way system.
see also:
Speakerplans.com
(apologies for my weak attempt at humor)
The narrow bandpass idea may be worth a shot, but don't over expect.
It's hard to grasp the magnitude of efficiency loss when going from PA woofers to small box car woofers without hearing it for yourself. It's severe, you'd be surprised how much power can be worthlessly consumed without the benefit of cabin gain.
If you want to play with it, I'd suggest first buying a couple of cheap/buyout woofers with similar efficiency to the woofers you're considering and knock up a quick cabinet as a test.
It's hard to grasp the magnitude of efficiency loss when going from PA woofers to small box car woofers without hearing it for yourself. It's severe, you'd be surprised how much power can be worthlessly consumed without the benefit of cabin gain.
If you want to play with it, I'd suggest first buying a couple of cheap/buyout woofers with similar efficiency to the woofers you're considering and knock up a quick cabinet as a test.
hey all
hey, i been doing some reading , trying to understand the ball of tech info, in the specs of your typical. loud speaker. qts, qes, fz, ect. .. i bumped into a band pass calculater on the net. and was playing with it. using specs from a jbl 2225h 15" .. the fz on the speaker was 40hz,... but when your building a box, you get to try to enhance certain spectrum, right?? so its possible to make a band pass box say trying to tune to 10 hz.in hopes the box will excentuate 25hz as much as possible, and use a crossover point thats very low. i got (4)jbl 2225h 15s, in 2 of the most ginormous ( very cool ) boxes. just sitting getting cold in my garage, cause nobody wants to move em.. so im trying to figure out a way to get to play with them. i also got my hands on 2 altec folded 18" bins that someboddy ripped the gut out of, with a lil repairing i figure i could load (2) of my jbls in to each of those. or try to calculate/learn how to get the lows/sub lows. out of them with (4) new homade bandpass boxes and cross overs. any ideas? or advice would be greatly appreciated. also if some one run the numbers off of a jbl 2225h and see what is feasable to squeeze out of them, i dont know if i used the calculator right, thanx all...
hey, i been doing some reading , trying to understand the ball of tech info, in the specs of your typical. loud speaker. qts, qes, fz, ect. .. i bumped into a band pass calculater on the net. and was playing with it. using specs from a jbl 2225h 15" .. the fz on the speaker was 40hz,... but when your building a box, you get to try to enhance certain spectrum, right?? so its possible to make a band pass box say trying to tune to 10 hz.in hopes the box will excentuate 25hz as much as possible, and use a crossover point thats very low. i got (4)jbl 2225h 15s, in 2 of the most ginormous ( very cool ) boxes. just sitting getting cold in my garage, cause nobody wants to move em.. so im trying to figure out a way to get to play with them. i also got my hands on 2 altec folded 18" bins that someboddy ripped the gut out of, with a lil repairing i figure i could load (2) of my jbls in to each of those. or try to calculate/learn how to get the lows/sub lows. out of them with (4) new homade bandpass boxes and cross overs. any ideas? or advice would be greatly appreciated. also if some one run the numbers off of a jbl 2225h and see what is feasable to squeeze out of them, i dont know if i used the calculator right, thanx all...
I am late(wonder why) the JL13W7 and DC lvl4 or 5 are totally different. DC has as many spaider as you want to buy and have installed (2-12) and JL only has 2. The W7 series is for normal listening and is seriously a home audio subwoofer. (Low Fs + long throw). The DC would take a sec to break-in but after that it would be silly loud.
just my $.02.
just my $.02.
The idea of designing a box for PA use that gives a certain sound, or 'kunk' whatever frequency that is, is fundementally wrong. A PA is supposed to give as flat a response as possible throughout the audio spectrum, as to accurately reproduce the signals you feed into it.
What type of drums are you using? Is the kick tuned properly or does it sound like crap acoustic, with no mic'ing? IF this is the case, the problem is the signal source, not the speakers reproducing the sounds.
Also, what type of mic are you using on the kick drum? If its a typical vocal mic like an SM57 or SM58 you are essentially rolling everything off south of 100hz by the type of mic you are using.
Hope this helps,
Derek
What type of drums are you using? Is the kick tuned properly or does it sound like crap acoustic, with no mic'ing? IF this is the case, the problem is the signal source, not the speakers reproducing the sounds.
Also, what type of mic are you using on the kick drum? If its a typical vocal mic like an SM57 or SM58 you are essentially rolling everything off south of 100hz by the type of mic you are using.
Hope this helps,
Derek
sensitivity: 86.3 dB
This is bad
Being able to handle 16 bazillion watts does not make a driver good. I can send 16 bazillion watts into a copper rod stuck in the ground, but it won't sound good. What makes Pro level PA gear kick *** is the fact that it has high sensitivity along with high power ratings.
If speaker A can hit 130 db with 500 watts and speaker B take 16,000 watts to hit 125 db, which one makes more sense to utilize? Simply handling a ton of power does not make a speaker the best.
Again, I hope this helps a little.
Derek
Here is a cheap JBL car driver (on closeout).
Cone excursion and net volume of about 12 cu ft per box.
This illustrates why the OP should use a pro driver. They would be achieving higher SPLs at the same number of watts, so it's possible to save on electricity and/or sell the larger amps.
Derek, your points make sense. Hopefully the OP will tell us more about his microphones etc. I agree that knowing what's further up the signal path is important.
Chris
It helps to look at your bandwidth of interest and intended application. For PA sub duty that'd be something like 30-120hz with most of the emphasis on 50-90hz. Driver sensitivity ratings need to be looked at a little deeper than just a the raw # without specification of how it was arrived at. A 98db rated driver could be rated at 400hz and might be well less than that in the bass range below 100hz, where it will actually be used in sub duty. Some drivers that appear dreadfully innefficient on paper can actually be at much less of a disadvantage than it would appear if used in the correct range.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.