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Old 2nd December 2009, 11:02 PM   #1
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Default Found two woofers, what to use?

Hi all.

As a new member of diyAudio, this is my first post. Found this site very interesting with lots of information. Great!

Well, to cut to the case. I found two old woofers I had laying around today while cleaning up some in my garage. From the days when car-audio was one of my hobbies. After becoming a parent and everything, there has been less car-audio.. due to my familiy wagon :-)

So I was thinking, why not building a sub box to take inside.. that way the woofers wouldn't have to be laying around outside.. totally unused.
Question is.. which one would be the best to use indoor..
Regular listening to music and watching movies.. and i've always been fan of deep good bass :-)

I have;
One 12" : Rockford Fosgate P212D4.
And this 10": Sony Xplod XS-L1030.


Was thinking maybe someone in here had experience with eighter one of the woofers - and perhaps already have buildt a good box for them?

What kind of box would you think is the best? I belive that both boxes are recommended in closed designs, if I remember right from the days that I used them. But how would they behave in vented? Or perhaps even Bandpass Single-Tuned? Last one i've always wanted to try build.. but i've never calculated these.. neighter good calculating boxes at all :-) Recommended designs by vendor ish was good enought in my car back in the days :-)

But tho - since I were thinking of taking them indoor, I would like to build them as close to optimal as possible. To help out while watching movies, give that little extras.. and while listening to music of course.

Would be very happy if someone helped me out choosing what kind of design to go for (closed, vented or bandpass) - and if somebody by any chance would have or make me an example u think would be good.. I would be EXTREMELY happy for that too :-)

Thanks!
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Old 3rd December 2009, 02:57 AM   #2
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I think the first step might be to measure the t/s parameters of those drivers. The results can help to determine what's the best way to deploy them.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 07:32 AM   #3
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Brian,

Thank you so much for your answer - but I must say, what you're saying.. does not compute :-)
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Old 3rd December 2009, 01:32 PM   #4
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A loudspeaker is a mechanically tuned system. In electronics you have capacitors, inductors and resistors that make up a tuned network. The analogy with mechanical systems are mass, spring and damper. The T/S parameters are the required specifications of the driver used to calculate a tuning with a box, port/duct or horn. Reputable companies like JBL, Electro-Voice, and Eminence include them in their specifications. Car audio companies, in general, sell snake oil, thus the important data to designers are rightfully missing.

I looked for the Fosgate T/S params, but no luck with google. You might consider getting the tools to evaluate your drivers: Dayton Audio WT3 driver testing system.

And from there, now armed with Qms/Vas/Rms/etc., try some tunings with WinISD
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Last edited by davygrvy; 3rd December 2009 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 05:51 PM   #5
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davygrvy,

Thank you so much! Now I know what I'm looking for. Found these T/S params for the Sony Xplod woofer tho. Finding for the Fosgate wasnt that easy - so I sent them an e-mail. Hopefully I will get an answer some day :-)

What to you think about the Sony? Any suggestions on this one?
Sony Xplod XS-L1030:

Fs: 27,7
Qms: 3,75
Vas: 55,9
Xmax: 4
Sd: 346
Qes: 0,82
Re: 3,6
Le: 0,7
Z: 4
Pe: 400
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Old 3rd December 2009, 08:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by injee View Post
davygrvy,

Thank you so much! Now I know what I'm looking for. Found these T/S params for the Sony Xplod woofer tho. Finding for the Fosgate wasnt that easy - so I sent them an e-mail. Hopefully I will get an answer some day :-)

What to you think about the Sony? Any suggestions on this one?
Sony Xplod XS-L1030:

Fs: 27,7
Qms: 3,75
Vas: 55,9
Xmax: 4
Sd: 346
Qes: 0,82
Re: 3,6
Le: 0,7
Z: 4
Pe: 400
Those are the PUBLISHED parameters. They might not be the ACTUAL parameters. Based on my own experience, the published parameters can be off, sometimes way off.

If you're going to the trouble of building something for those drivers, get a WT3 from Parts Express and measure the parameters yourself. They're on sale now, and you can always Ebay it afterwards if you have no further use for it.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 08:32 PM   #7
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That Sony doesn't look so good. Efficiency bandwidth product is low, so that means a closed box is the best tuning. To get a maximally flat amplitude requires an 800 liter box. That's too huge (1), and power would be limited to only 18.4W where Xmax is exceeded below 40Hz (2).

I wouldn't use that driver. Snake oil...

Look at the Peerless SWR308 (830500 XLS) as a starter. That has some great specs for numerous types of tunings.

Here's one that'll get you 20 Hz quite nicely:
box volume: 120 Liters (about a 20" cube)
port tuning: 20Hz (4" diameter, 17.3" long)
power limited to 283 watts [112dB] due to linear excursion reached at 26 Hz. But the driver's Pe is 150W, so that's not making the most use of excursion.

Using two in a 132L box with port tuning at 21 Hz looks wonderful in WinISD.

There's many ways to go with this driver. It looks great in a tapped horn, too.
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Old 4th December 2009, 02:29 PM   #8
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davygrvy,

Thank you so much for your time and your explanations. Apreciate it!
The Peerless woofer looks great. After searching some more I also found the linkwitzlab's THOR sub-enclosure for this one. Even that one looks great!

Anyway I actually good an reply from Rockford Fosgate Support today. So I was wondering of your opinion for that woofer - if you dont mind.. ?
Want to try to make use of woofers I already have before trying to get acceptance home to spend more money on new ones :-p Maybe you know what I mean.. :-)

(Don't know if this is enought data to do any calculations - but shoot...)

Nominal Impedance (ohms) 4 (2)
Voice Coil Diameter-inch (mm) 2.5 (63.5)
FS (Hz) 26
QTS 0.456
VAS-cu.ft. (liter) 1.77 (50)
Xmax-inch (mm) 0.47 (12.0)
SPL (dB @ 1w/1m) 87.0
Power Handling (RMS) 500
Speaker Dis.-cu. ft. (liter) 0.082 (2.32)
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Old 4th December 2009, 05:01 PM   #9
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The Fosgate will work fairly well in a simple sealed box of approximately 1.5 cubic feet. It may also work well in some other, more exotic designs such as the bandpass design you discussed, but without the actual measured Thiele-Small parameters, I would suggest that you keep it simple.

If your heart is set on the more exotic designs, the WT3 does provide a lot of information for the $, especially when it is on sale (earlier this week).

Parts-Express.com:*Dayton WT3 Bundled with Precision Scale | parameter testing speaker speaker tester woofer tester woofer tester 2 woofer tester 3 wt2 wt3 www.woofertester.com woofertester.com woofertester3 woofertester2 clio lms linearx melissa mls

There are also programs (Praxis, ARTA, Speaker Workshop) that can be used to determine driver parameters, but I have no direct experience with these, I use my Woofer Tester 2.

The Fosgate driver is a dual voice coil woofer, wire the coils in series unless you have a 2-ohm stable amp (and you likely do not for home use).

I've had a bit of experience with both brands, given these two drivers, I'd choose the Fosgate hands down.
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