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Old 26th November 2009, 09:22 PM   #1
fusion is offline fusion  United Kingdom
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Default building a sub based on ciare 12.00sw?

Hi, I have recently decided I need a portable PA system to travel and DJ with, so I will be purchasing a powerful PA amp (perhaps a mackie m3000) and a standard pair of midtops such as peavy pro 15s or something along those lines.

However to go with this I would need a subwoofer or two. I would go for one at first and see how that goes.

I have been looking at the Ciare 12.00SW (Punisher) driver

CIARE ITALIAN SPEAKERS - PRO AUDIO B2B: 12.00 SW THE PUNISHER SUB-WOOFER

I have actually heard this in a horn setup as one driver and it was adequate for my needs. However... my enclosure building skills are nowhere near currently good enough to build such a cabinet so I have decided against this.

Question is, would the driver still be effective in a PA system in a normal vented enclosure. I have tried it in winISD and it comes up with a very small (29L) enclosure which seems good, but would this sound good?

Any other suggestions to drivers/setups are more than welcome!!

Richard
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Old 26th November 2009, 10:21 PM   #2
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What is the goal in terms of numbers? 130dB@1M, good down to 40Hz?
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Old 26th November 2009, 11:26 PM   #3
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For bass-reflex, at 37 Liters with a port tuning of 39Hz, you're good down to 35Hz, but it isn't loud. Only around 120dB power limited to 1100W due to excursion. Efficiency looks to be a sorry 90dB/1W/1M
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Old 27th November 2009, 12:41 AM   #4
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so you would not recomend this driver in a vented config and would work best horn loaded correct? Any idea of a driver which could provide a heavy sound for small halls and house parties? I know its a bit farfetched but Im sure I could buy a driver and build a better sub than what I could buy for the same money. Thanks for the help btw Davygrvy

Anyway, an alternative to it all would be to find someone who can build me a punisher enclosure. Does anyone know of anyone who constructs such enclosures at a fair price? or even more of a step by step instruction to how I could...perhaps it would be worth the effort.

Richard
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Old 27th November 2009, 04:05 AM   #5
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Let's wait for the other folks to chime in, too.

1) How portable does this have to be? Any size limitations for the hatchback or trunk this needs to be moved in?

2) How loud? For DJ work I'll assume an average SPL at the listeners of 103dB for the discotheque thing. With 10 over for headroom and maybe the speaker will be 3 meters away. Hopefully against the wall or in a corner. If I crunch that I get maxSPL = 103 + 10 + 20*log(3) = 113+9.5 = 122 dB.

One cab is looking a little shy to me. Counting some additional boundary gain in, I think that'll work, but just barely.

I'm a weird one with recommendations. I'll probably say something stupid like use 16 of the cheap 8" MCM 55-2421 drivers in a vented cab. Try it with WinISD: 8'' High Excursion Woofer | MCM Audio Select | 55-2421 (552421) In a 200 Liter box with the port tuned to 26Hz, that'll get you to 26Hz needing a small low boost and can take 2kW and get you to 130dB(SPL) at 100, but 125 at 40. 200 Liters is only a 22" cube.
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Old 27th November 2009, 07:43 AM   #6
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Lol the 8 inch driver idea is actually feasable if it wouldnt work out so expensive. I was just looking to spend 100-150 pounds on a driver maximum and then whatever the wood and other materials would cost to do the build. I am thinking finding someone who can build a horn is a good idea right now. So you say in a vented box, just only 103db is feasible at a listener distance? Im not sure if thats loud or not!! What power would be required to put out that maximum SPL cleanly too... is there anyway you could compare the vented output to the punisher horn output?
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Old 28th November 2009, 07:30 AM   #7
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A single tapped horn like what jbell did is very impressive from its efficiency. His cab uses the Eminence 3015LF in a special tapped horn cabinet that gets him an efficiency of 102.5 @ 40Hz Wowzers! As a comparison, you'd need just 90 watts to get it to 122dB(SPL) compared to 1100 watts with the ciare in the 37 liter box and it only sims to 120dB(SPL). The downside is large size. And to be safe, you need to high pass the signal very strongly as a tapped horn as no driver loading below its cutoff.
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Old 28th November 2009, 02:30 PM   #8
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±3dB from 40hz~150hz or so. One cabinet should be able to play 130dB peak in the 40hz~50hz region.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by djk; 28th November 2009 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 28th November 2009, 07:00 PM   #9
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A tapped horn should be a little easier to build than the Punisher design, IMO. I'm not sure how close you are to Bristol, but one guy here bought 8 Punishers, already built, tho I'm not sure how much he paid, but I imagine it would be at least £100 per cab unloaded...

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Old 29th November 2009, 12:56 AM   #10
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Eight Punisher would have a lot of output, one would not.

One tapped horn would have useable bass (as above).

If you will always do big jobs and have a big truck, go for the front load horns.

If you need to do smaller jobs and take a smaller vehicle, use the tapped horn.

A different TH, but showing the effects of multiple TH:

Click the image to open in full size.
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