Which cabs we talking about?
Just so you understand I'm thinking of building 1 x 30hz cowan as practice for the big set up, I'd be happy to use a simple design like cowan's for the FOUR cabs but will they produce?
Or will I have to go 4xquad mcms or 4x jbells big single horns
I haven't memorised these abbreviations too so I'll be a little slow.
P.S. You guys probably get free post nationwide, I'm not sure what 16 mcms would cost freighted to Tasmania.................
If you want to use the cowan tapped horn, you need to adjust the dimensions to fit your driver. It will behave differently. To do that you need the real T/S specs to enter then into hornresp (or akabak) to model it to see that it will hit the intended design goal. Being only a single turn box, it's going to rather long when on it's side. Be aware that a TH doesn't really have the same behavior as a front loaded horn with regards to mutual coupling. More will be louder, yes, but I don't know if it will lower or smoother.
Any of the tapped horn designs can be built like Cowan's. You will need more than one enclosure.
The horn must be designed for the drivers. Right horn with the wrong driver = bad idea, just like the wrong horn for the right driver.
MCM has free shipping for orders in the continental US if you spend enough. I would imagine that there may be alternative drivers that you can source locally. When you add in the shipping costs to get them to you, I'm sure the MCM's would no longer be cheap.
The horn must be designed for the drivers. Right horn with the wrong driver = bad idea, just like the wrong horn for the right driver.
MCM has free shipping for orders in the continental US if you spend enough. I would imagine that there may be alternative drivers that you can source locally. When you add in the shipping costs to get them to you, I'm sure the MCM's would no longer be cheap.
Yeah cool I'll just try and model a single turn box for the fusion 12", jbells look good but I'm still reading his thread.... I've got a bit to go on the collab too I've managed to read about 200 pages so far and soaked up about 90% of the info.
I've emailed cowenaudio but no response.
Have you seen a hornresp chart I can import that uses a 12"?
I keep getting errors in red and can't calculate or export to show you whats wrong..
How many an which parameters do I need to change to switch drivers? I tried to open volvotreters layout download off his site but it decodes wrong or something and won't view, I really need a labelled single turn box that I can mess with..........
What do you mean any can be built like cowens?
Yeah figured about the price, I'm heading to the U.S. next thursday and bringing back a 15" bass driver an a hf tractrix horn for my Klipsch's. Not taking checked bags so I can get 15" sub and horn home, should weigh 5kg so got a bit of space left but prob too soon to find the right drivers.......... What do the mcms weigh/cost?
Can you humour me some guidelines for this fusion 12" please somebody?
Nearly any tapped horn can be simplified into a single fold 7 board box like Cowan's.
MCM's are ~$25.00 each with the right code, they weigh about 4.5 kilo each (four shipped was 18 kilos). They are a beefy little driver.
Ok thanks mike
A right little cranka
Yeah there's nothing like parts express down here, I'll look up jaycar but I've never seen much in their catalogs like mcm's.
Anyone who knows about U.S. to Oz freight prices let me know please..
Cheers mate
What do I change for the fusion sub? Sd, cms,mmd?
How do I find these from what Ive got?(last page is all I have for fusion)
See post #40, yeah that stuff. Leave Sd alone as that's already set for a 12", but that info I gave is mostly invalid. Contact Fusion to get the real data.
Oz parts hunt
This is the only woofer from our main electronics place
10" Response Subwoofer - Jaycar Electronics
Pricey! I'll keep looking
This GTO?
http://www.e-hifi.com.au/jblcar/GrandTouringSeries/gto1014.aspx
This is the only woofer from our main electronics place
10" Response Subwoofer - Jaycar Electronics
Pricey! I'll keep looking
This GTO?
http://www.e-hifi.com.au/jblcar/GrandTouringSeries/gto1014.aspx
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Cowan audio just sent me this:
Matching the output capability of the mains will probably give you an unsatisfactory result. Most good sounding PAs have 6-10dB more Sub than main output. The 400W QSC will be too small to drive any reasonable sized sub to the outputs you require. The PLX3602 (Which I use in my home system) is small and light and will provide you with more usable power. 30Hz is a little low in frequency for something you will want to drag around. A 40Hz box will be much smaller for the same output and the audience most likely won't notice the missing bottom end.
Matching the output capability of the mains will probably give you an unsatisfactory result. Most good sounding PAs have 6-10dB more Sub than main output. The 400W QSC will be too small to drive any reasonable sized sub to the outputs you require. The PLX3602 (Which I use in my home system) is small and light and will provide you with more usable power. 30Hz is a little low in frequency for something you will want to drag around. A 40Hz box will be much smaller for the same output and the audience most likely won't notice the missing bottom end.
I certainly agree with everything he said. My last big system I ran 3600W on the subs. mids were 1200W and tweeters at 180W. That's all peak available and never let them get there due to limiting. The max SPL outputs were about even. It was most definitely voiced (EQ'd) for hot bass.
You can do 30Hz if you really want to. It's just going to have to be four or maybe more cabs to do it... like we said originally. The goal of 30Hz@130dB(SPL) not only determines the type and amount of cabinets, but also the amplifiers upstream as well.
Now is a good time to make a choice. If your car driver works out in TH cabinet, are you going to drop the cash for more to get your SPL goal?
You can do 30Hz if you really want to. It's just going to have to be four or maybe more cabs to do it... like we said originally. The goal of 30Hz@130dB(SPL) not only determines the type and amount of cabinets, but also the amplifiers upstream as well.
Now is a good time to make a choice. If your car driver works out in TH cabinet, are you going to drop the cash for more to get your SPL goal?
Yeah it's great getting all this feedback, I'm really nutting it all out now..
If the difference between 30hz and 40hz isn't much to the listener(an most of the listeners wouldn't know good sound if it bit them) then I'm happy to do 40hz.
Spl is the main thing I think, just to give it some more toughness!
I'd like to build a TH with the Fusion driver and evaluate the real world sound before continuing with the full blown set up.
I've asked Cowan to help me adapt the fusion to one of his designs so I hope to hear back from him soon if he's a.got time/b.is keen
I'm doing a roadtrip(buses an trains) across the U.S. starting next thursday so I've got some time to think. Going to have all four klipschs going once I get my parts, haven't had them all going for a little while. I'll talk to some local sound guys and maybe borrow a sub to feel out some idea of what I want from the the project.
I'm still a little unsure what style to look into, I'd like something simple like a single fold TH (Cowan or jbell bass stick) but jbell has suggested a dual driver FLH (I think, so many names and pages of research!)and little mike suggested a quad mcm.
In short:
A. If I could get the spl out of a single fold TH and the coupling works well I'd go it.
B. If not I'll look for a simple FLH
And of course
C. The availability of the drivers an cost will be the determining factor
I'm happy to spend a grand on gear(that does cover 3 fusions nut I'd prefer something cheaper) when I get back from the states, not really sure where to start looking for parts down here. Parts from places down here cost a lot more than from partsexpress etc.
The amps can be hired for the time being, I'm super keen for a build but I'm gonna have to learn hornresp!
I'm meant to be finishing my canoe for summer too but it can wait...
yep that's the line of JBL's. The 10 makes a good front loaded horn, the 15 makes a good Tapped horn. Actually if you are up for big cabinets, something very similar to my big TH would work for the 15... and give fantastic output.
That site only has 'suggested list' prices. Wonder what you could actually buy them for?
I think the jbls would be a winner...
Ok thanks jbell,
Which "big TH" do you mean?
I'm happy to build 4 cabs, think they'll be pretty impressive next to the booth.
Got an idea to cut down a trolley movers use an strap it onto the bottom end of a TH so one person could move them, or too people easily. Some times rough ground at sites so I'll use a inflatable tyre one
I think that four gto's would be in my budget I'll look them up..........
Will just two together still couple for much spl?
Here's a site:
http://www.ryda.com.au/Ryda-Car-Audio-JBL-Car-Subwoofers-s/696.htm
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http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/127908-jbells-set-four-tapped-horns-4.html#post1598913
I ran a quick sim, looks like a pair of these cabinets with the jbl1514 driver should get you roughly 130db from 35-100hz at 350 watts per. The JBL's will play a little lower vs the 3015lf, and the 3015lf will play a little louder. As long as your amp has a 30hz high pass filter, you are good to go.
Sounds almost exactly like what you are looking for.
edit: checked the GT5.. looks like it models within a half db at 60hz vs the GTO, and exactly the same at 35 and 100hz. GTO can take a little more power vs the GT5... But, if money says you can have 4 cabinets with the GT5, vs 2 cabinets with the GTO... go for the GT5.
I ran a quick sim, looks like a pair of these cabinets with the jbl1514 driver should get you roughly 130db from 35-100hz at 350 watts per. The JBL's will play a little lower vs the 3015lf, and the 3015lf will play a little louder. As long as your amp has a 30hz high pass filter, you are good to go.
Sounds almost exactly like what you are looking for.
edit: checked the GT5.. looks like it models within a half db at 60hz vs the GTO, and exactly the same at 35 and 100hz. GTO can take a little more power vs the GT5... But, if money says you can have 4 cabinets with the GT5, vs 2 cabinets with the GTO... go for the GT5.
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Ok thanks jbell, you must be up late? Or early...
Looks good for about $200 Oz dollar per piece.
What sort of power did you run into your 4?
Did you daisy chain them two a side?
Jbl say 350w rms 1300w max..
Would you mind posting your final data so I can work out if I can(slowly) make a plan?
Or actually I can copy/paste the post by don but better ask your permission?
Thanks again
P.S. I'm able to get 4 at $200 or under I just meant two a side...
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2 things to keep in mind.
1. These are 4 ohm drivers, not 8 ohm, so your amp needs to be 2 ohm stable, and needs to be rated at at least 700-1000 watts per channel at 2 ohm and have a 30hz high pass, if your crossover / dsp doesn't have it. (assuming you are planning on running a pair of subs in parallel to each sub amp channel.)
2. don't split your subs, unless they are at least 50' apart.
Also, you need to leave room in your budget for a pair of 4x8 sheets of 3/4" plywood per cabinet, finish, and wiring,jacks,corners,handles. (must have handles!!!) If you can get the GT5's for $150-$160, that leaves some room in your $1000 budget for that kind of stuff.
Not knowing what plywood / woodworking tools/abilities are available to you. I feel very comfortable with the big cabinet. It's all square cuts, and brain dead simple to build. I'm positive there are better options for you. However, this is one of those "so simple, it almost can't fail" kind of things. That cabinet (mainly due to it's size) is also forgiving in terms of driver, so if you blow a driver 3 years from now, and can't get the exact same replacement JBL... no worries.
Knowing that JBL's are available to you in oz makes it a no-brainer to use them. Quality wise I'd stack those jbl car subs up against most pro-sound names. They are really that good.
And btw -- it's mid morning for me, and work is slow at the moment... that's why I'm posting.
Also, no permission needed from me on the TH design -- it's fair game for anyone. I'm not one of those 'ownershippy' kind of guys.
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