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Old 4th November 2009, 10:46 AM   #1
juxta is offline juxta  Australia
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Default Sub to accompany 4 Klipsch kp-362's

Hey there I'm looking for some bass boost to help my Klipsch kp-362 pro seies speakers along.

I've headed down the diy road as I'm keen to work(for bass) and can't find what I'm looking for.


The system is used mostly outdoors so I need a lot of base for the bush to soak up, transport is getting harder but I'll put up with a fair bit for a good system....
Music played is mostly electronic with bpms from 100 to 145.

I've heard of a few options, the danley spud and these Bill Fitz Maurice Tuba
36's although some talk badly of them, give it to me straight...

Has anyone built either of these, especially the Tuba 36"?
Pics and advice would be great...

If so what drivers and amps are good, transport and cost considered?
Eminece Definimax 4015LF sound the business, any comments?

Any info be appreciated!

Last edited by juxta; 4th November 2009 at 10:53 AM. Reason: left out a detail
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Old 5th November 2009, 12:01 AM   #2
Glowbug is offline Glowbug  United States
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Do you have a budget? How much amplification?
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Jim J.
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Old 5th November 2009, 02:34 AM   #3
juxta is offline juxta  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glowbug View Post
Do you have a budget? How much amplification?
I've got plenty of other projects wanting money also so as little as possible, but I want a good solid performer, can always cut down my rations..


I've got a 200w sub amp hanging about an also a 400w Qsc power amp more suited to P.A. I think, used to use it to run 2 of the Klipsch's. I think I'll need more power than this, I've got a 200w sub to go with the amp but never really tested it, thinking it wouldn't brighten up the kp-362's much.

I'd be happy to buy an amp, driver, and plans.

Looking at 1x18" or 2x15" and the associated amp and setup.

I've got hornresp but not really sure where to start, and I'm more keen on getting proven plans than going out on my own.

As CowanDIY is in my area I'll get in touch with him and beg him for a moment...

Thanks
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Old 5th November 2009, 05:46 AM   #4
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Most important question - what frequency range do you need to cover?
Second most important - what SPL do you need?

Once you establish real answers for these two, the rest of the choices are constrained by the realities of your situation - budget, space, available amplification and so forth.

Do you have the drivers already?
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Old 5th November 2009, 08:01 AM   #5
juxta is offline juxta  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemike View Post
Most important question - what frequency range do you need to cover?
Second most important - what SPL do you need?

Once you establish real answers for these two, the rest of the choices are constrained by the realities of your situation - budget, space, available amplification and so forth.

Do you have the drivers already?
I don't really know mike, the music played is fairly low down in the freq range with between 100bpm to 145bpm. The Klipsch's do a good job but some Dub step stuff played now has lots of very low bass, sounds great though some big subs. I've used Funktion Ones and even a 16k Turbosound but now I'm trying to build something semi portable, and rent free.
Just really trying to take some pressure off the Klipsch's

What spl should I be looking for?

I haven't bought drivers but I can afford an Eminence 15' I've seen around the $300 mark.

Cowen audio says on his site that one 15" driven by 400rms(I've got a spare Qsc 400w power amp)can produce as much spl as 4 drivers in a sealed box powered by 1200rms.

Was it you who had those 4 horns on this site?
One or two of those look to be the business...
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Old 5th November 2009, 05:08 PM   #6
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That was Jim (jbell). He and I collaborated on the design when the T36's didn't cut it for him (Honestly - the credit is all Jim's - I just gave him an idea, he ran with it).

Don Snyder put together a nice summary of Jim's design, others have put these together too. Jim's design does not work well below 40 Hz, but really shines above 40 Hz. Screamers has a similar design to Jim's, but Screamers has refined his design a LOT further with a LOT of sawdust and sweat.

Generally, with the Eminence 3015 LF, you can get loud, but you can't get really low. They are a PA driver, not a home theater driver. The 4012 HO actually goes a little bit lower in a tapped horn. Car audio drivers also work well in tapped horns.

Danley's SPUD is a home theater sub primarily. It may not work for you, as it really likes boundary reinforcement (walls and corners). Though I have never built or measured one, according to a number of well-respected individuals, T36's measure -10 dB @ 40 Hz relative to 100 Hz. This is quite similar to what you already have (in other words - they may play loud, but will not play loudly any lower than what you already have does).

According to the manufacturer, your KP-362's make 102 dB with 1 Watt and are -4 dB @ 55 Hz. Looks like you want efficient subs that would reach an octave lower, so you'd want something that played a bit deeper than Jim's design. The KP-362 will each make 126 dB at full power, ideally you want the subs to produce a bit more than that. You may need multiple subs to get there (2 per main)

Some of the electronic/dubstep I've played with has content way down low (20 to 25 Hz.), so no matter what you do for a sub - it would be wise to run a strong (48 dB/oct) highpass filter to save your drivers and use the amp power where it matters.

After all this -

Answer #1 = From 30 Hz to 100 Hz.
Answer #2 = Greater than 100 dB 1W/1M

Sounds like you're looking for the same thing we all are.

Davygravy brought up a very interesting thought in your other thread. Many hands make light work. Multiple small drivers can move a LOT of air.
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Old 6th November 2009, 05:51 AM   #7
juxta is offline juxta  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemike View Post
That was Jim (jbell).
Car audio drivers also work well in tapped horns.

You may need multiple subs to get there (2 per main)

Some of the electronic/dubstep I've played with has content way down low (20 to 25 Hz.), so no matter what you do for a sub - it would be wise to run a strong (48 dB/oct) highpass filter to save your drivers and use the amp power where it matters.

After all this -

Answer #1 = From 30 Hz to 100 Hz.
Answer #2 = Greater than 100 dB 1W/1M

Sounds like you're looking for the same thing we all are.

Davygravy brought up a very interesting thought in your other thread. Many hands make light work. Multiple small drivers can move a LOT of air.
Why do car subs work well in horns? Is it to do with the maker taking into mind cabin accoustics, are the horn enlosures creating the same effect?

And multiple subs( 2 per main) what do you mean by that? 2 subs per kp-362 stack?(I use two a side vertical for indoors or side by side wheel of cheese style for big floors outside)

And also high pass filters, can you direct me to one so I can recon pricing availabilty etc.

Sorry to make a rengade thread I didn't realise the collab thread was a few hundred pages long!!!!
I'll keep sorting through it but it's hard to get what I need from it with out a degree..

Thanks so much

Pascal
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Old 6th November 2009, 06:33 PM   #8
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Not all car subs do. It is just another category of driver to consider. Primarily - power handling, excursion, and the thiele-small parameters are a decent fit for a tapped horn with some car drivers.

2 cabinets per main is just that - 2 subs per main. It might be overkill, maybe not. Bass takes energy, you have to move air. As TH cabinets couple acoustically similar to horns, multiple cabinets are your friend.

High pass - A lot of people use the Behringer DCX 2496, I do not have one as I have no need for it (my main system is purely for HT use).

BEHRINGER: DCX2496

Though I have a couple, my degrees don't apply to this stuff either - I felt like my head was spinning as I read through it. I am purely a self-taught amateur when it comes to speakers, but I have been playing with cabinet design for 25 years now. Took me weeks to get through that collaborative thread, but I must have learned something. Honestly, I think I learned a lot more by making some sawdust and taking some measurements. Once what I measured matched my model, I knew I was on to something.
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Old 7th November 2009, 12:58 AM   #9
juxta is offline juxta  Australia
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Okay thanks mate I'll check the behringer out.

Thanks for all ya help I think I'm getting some where now!!
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