Hello,
I'm just seek to understand how ProAc have done the TriTower ...
The bass enclosure section is about 10L only. This loudspeaker is 90db efficiency and have deep bass from 35hz with floor port.
I want to build an enclosure of 7L with proportional bass response from f3 of 90db.
But i search while hours on the net and speaker list and WinISD and never find a method to reach this kind of performance.
Is that someone who already done this before ?
If yes, you du he do !?
This subwoofer will be the "stand" of a pair of mini monitor with Fostex at 90db. So i need efficiency like the ProAc TriTour and, again like this product, no active XO or subwoofer amp.
Just try to do something already done but i don,t have enough knowledge to find the secret myself
Thank's!
I'm just seek to understand how ProAc have done the TriTower ...
The bass enclosure section is about 10L only. This loudspeaker is 90db efficiency and have deep bass from 35hz with floor port.
I want to build an enclosure of 7L with proportional bass response from f3 of 90db.
But i search while hours on the net and speaker list and WinISD and never find a method to reach this kind of performance.
Is that someone who already done this before ?
If yes, you du he do !?
This subwoofer will be the "stand" of a pair of mini monitor with Fostex at 90db. So i need efficiency like the ProAc TriTour and, again like this product, no active XO or subwoofer amp.
Just try to do something already done but i don,t have enough knowledge to find the secret myself
Thank's!
Henkjan said:35Hz, is that the -10dB point?
90dB with 3 units paralel should not be a problem...
I don't know about -10db.
One thing i know. i own Mission 701 with 60hz specs and when you hear ProAc a lot more lower and better bass.
remember that the important is the feeling and the listening pleasure at the end. Not the specs or curve etc. There is maybe a difference between build a speaker for talking about it and buil a speaker for listening.
I have a good pair of DIY here with good response curve an bla bla specs and nobody like the sound because it's too "high" or "hard".
Firts a tough my speaker have a problem but i build a little pair of monitor with good Fostex flat fullrange and i find the same "signature" in the sound that people dislike.
I have a pair of Monitor Audio RS8 and it's sound amazing to this people but i discover that the mid-bass are atenuate and the sound is modeled to obtain what the customers like.
anyway, return to the topic !
I build a 7 litre box (i can restart with little more volume if absolutely necessary). I want F3 of 60hz and 90db 1w 1m 100hz.
Deeper is better too so if i can do more
Thank's !
Keep in mind, numbers are used to sell loudspeakers and so presentation and omission is everything.
In acoustics on the other hand where science dictates measurements, one would find that if you used ALL of your 10 L as the enclosure volume and had the port and cabinet walls external, then for a –3dB point of 35Hz, the highest possible sensitivity you could achieve, using the “perfect driver” for the B4 alignment, is about 82.dB, 1W 1M.
You pay roughly a 9 dB per octave penalty in efficiency when you lower the low corner an octave and keep the box volume fixed.
To get an F3 of 60Hz with 90 dB 1W1M in a B4, requires about 12 L and of course the right driver and port.
Low bass is big and heavy even when you can cheat Hoffman’s iron law a little. A B4 alignment (simple ported box) is not your only option.
Best,
Tom
In acoustics on the other hand where science dictates measurements, one would find that if you used ALL of your 10 L as the enclosure volume and had the port and cabinet walls external, then for a –3dB point of 35Hz, the highest possible sensitivity you could achieve, using the “perfect driver” for the B4 alignment, is about 82.dB, 1W 1M.
You pay roughly a 9 dB per octave penalty in efficiency when you lower the low corner an octave and keep the box volume fixed.
To get an F3 of 60Hz with 90 dB 1W1M in a B4, requires about 12 L and of course the right driver and port.
Low bass is big and heavy even when you can cheat Hoffman’s iron law a little. A B4 alignment (simple ported box) is not your only option.
Best,
Tom
Tom Danley said:
The project look and design is already fixed. I have minimonitor who need stand. If i build stand larger and or deeper than speaker, it will look ugly and good sound and i can do many other big bass speaker in the ugly domain. And marority far more efficiency and low...
The minimonitor with Fostex Fe107e is about 90db. I can do one thing to help me to reach best overall response. I can atenuate the fullrange a little bit.
If a build my enclosure two inches taller and with ½" MDF instead of ¾" (i will grow to 10L cabinet) and i attenuate the Fostex from 90 to 87db ? Can I expect good response with propre driver ?
External dimension : 28 inches high (including about 1in spikes) 5" wide and 8¼" deep. The universe stop to this limits
I almoast order the Silver Flute W17RC3804... Few, i say your reply just at time !
The WinISD cure of SilverFlute doesn't look like one in the spec sheet. The Solen guy said that is a good choice for my setup but the MCM 55-2421 curve look better if i use 10L
thank's for your help !
Tom Danley said:
Yeah i know the manufacturer use sort of specs playing and sometime fool customer. I don't stiff on the specs here. Just want warm and interesting sounding mini tour speaker. A bit like Rega small tour with side mounting woofer. This boxes are already split volume inside i think. In my case, i only make two separate enclosure.
If you know how to reproduce he bass presence and efficiency "illusion" of the TriTower, i will add it to my sound system because it satisfied me for this kind of project. I prefer to be comfortable in the fake than stay the speaker in my locker because they sound shy and gramophone like.
This is an hybrid project. If a wan, i disconnect the mini-monitor from the base and enjoy a true fullrange hi-fi with no bass. But when i want more warm and relaxing ambience, i plug it trough the base ! And if i want, i can use the mini-monitor anywhere in the house. It's small enough to be transportable
jbell said:
Sory, i make stupid mistake. The wall is 7 7/8" deep with an angle (see picutre)
the inside of future enclosure will be max 6 7/8"...
I check for Tymphany LAT 250 system work well in 7L enclosure but overall performance of Silver Flûte are better so..
Thank,s
Attachments
I study about build trapezoïd enclosure.
Straight sides and back but angled front panel.
It will enlarge the bottom just enough to place the woofer safely. But i know the side woofer will be ugly. I supposed it's the price to pay !
Nothing to do with more than one small woofer on the rear pannel ?
The bigger bass is always on the back of my speakers so i can use this phenomenon to bring it to listener.
And with small woofer array on the back, the style will be perfect ... Any driver suggestion ?
Straight sides and back but angled front panel.
It will enlarge the bottom just enough to place the woofer safely. But i know the side woofer will be ugly. I supposed it's the price to pay !
Nothing to do with more than one small woofer on the rear pannel ?
The bigger bass is always on the back of my speakers so i can use this phenomenon to bring it to listener.
And with small woofer array on the back, the style will be perfect ... Any driver suggestion ?
jbell said:
I use winISD and i create this woofer in my list. The result is totally different. Not efficient enough to reach over 88db and f3 is high.
Every curve i try to reproduce in my winISD failed. I see diy plan from Ciare, bandpass in isobaric supposed to reach 90db bass. Winisd show 84.5db lol
Something is wrong here
LAT
The spec sheet of Tymphany LAT 250 is good. I can easy do the recommended enclosure with no woofer apparent on front and side. This system is in sale at many place good price.
With 90% less vibration than woofer, i am more secure about this tiny speaker. I make test and just the Fostex Full range make the monitor vibrating. The monitor is stiff enough but light ! There be the same for the stand.
It's write that i will need an over excursion filter "2nd order highpass @ 55Hz"
the sheet spl is over 90 but in the website he said it's 85db.
Is it possible to simply add a potentiometer (le for L PAD) between the sub and the fullrange ? For adjust is on my taste
Like a volume button ... ?
The spec sheet of Tymphany LAT 250 is good. I can easy do the recommended enclosure with no woofer apparent on front and side. This system is in sale at many place good price.
With 90% less vibration than woofer, i am more secure about this tiny speaker. I make test and just the Fostex Full range make the monitor vibrating. The monitor is stiff enough but light ! There be the same for the stand.
It's write that i will need an over excursion filter "2nd order highpass @ 55Hz"
the sheet spl is over 90 but in the website he said it's 85db.
Is it possible to simply add a potentiometer (le for L PAD) between the sub and the fullrange ? For adjust is on my taste
Like a volume button ... ?
A 2 cu ft 2nd order sealed box with an F3 of 30hz can only be 0.18% efficient (84.55dB).
A 2 cu ft 4th order vented box with an F3 of 30hz can only be 0.36% efficient (87.56dB).
A 2 cu ft 6th order vented box with an F3 of 30hz can only be 0.90% efficient (91.54dB).
(without playing the 'room gain' game)
A 2 cu ft 4th order vented box with an F3 of 30hz can only be 0.36% efficient (87.56dB).
A 2 cu ft 6th order vented box with an F3 of 30hz can only be 0.90% efficient (91.54dB).
(without playing the 'room gain' game)
Never say die
Hi I just saw your thread and gave it a quick once over. The size of box is downright evil.
But this is something that might be of some help:
With a bit of EQ you could get close to what you are asking for. THe only caveat is that Tang Band has been having some serious QC problems. You get the drivers and they are not what you thought they would be. Best advice is to buy from a dealer that will be willing to stand behind the drivers. Otherwise this could get you what you are asking for.
Mark
Hi I just saw your thread and gave it a quick once over. The size of box is downright evil.
But this is something that might be of some help:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
With a bit of EQ you could get close to what you are asking for. THe only caveat is that Tang Band has been having some serious QC problems. You get the drivers and they are not what you thought they would be. Best advice is to buy from a dealer that will be willing to stand behind the drivers. Otherwise this could get you what you are asking for.
Mark
mwmkravchenko: what software are you using there?
this is similar to my project, I'm also considering installing a sub with a tiny enclosure...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147365
this is similar to my project, I'm also considering installing a sub with a tiny enclosure...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147365
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