So what makes a woofer a "SUB" woofer? Is it a particular specification? It's ability to go deeper than a "woofer"? It's in-ability to extend much above the 100hz neighborhood? Is it how it is used? Has the audio industry labeled woofers with the "SUB" prefix incorrectly so as to draw attention like using "turbo" or "nitro" etc. ? Is a "SUB" woofer necessary for playing music or does it cover where music seldom goes?
Some official professional clarity on this subject would be greatly appreciated. If there is a thread/link I've missed please post it.
Some official professional clarity on this subject would be greatly appreciated. If there is a thread/link I've missed please post it.
All comes down to the First Rule of Marketing:
"The first liar doesn't have a chance"
For more info, see: http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/01_eduintro.html
Where John Lenard Burnett will explain why it requires four drivers to cover the audio range (Subwoofer/Woofer/Mid/Tweeter).
"The first liar doesn't have a chance"
For more info, see: http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/01_eduintro.html
Where John Lenard Burnett will explain why it requires four drivers to cover the audio range (Subwoofer/Woofer/Mid/Tweeter).
I believe passive bandpass was first
Then came active mono (sub)woofer, with eq
Cut below main speakers natural rolloff, mostly around 50hz
Then people began to use stereo subs
After that I believe came the use of equalising woofers in main speakers
It also became popular to use subs up to 100hz, with small main speakers
Main speakers could also be crossed to "subs" active
Its actually a 3way
The term has become difficult to define
But strictly speaking it needs to handle 20hz well to be called a sub
Its still a simplification
Then came active mono (sub)woofer, with eq
Cut below main speakers natural rolloff, mostly around 50hz
Then people began to use stereo subs
After that I believe came the use of equalising woofers in main speakers
It also became popular to use subs up to 100hz, with small main speakers
Main speakers could also be crossed to "subs" active
Its actually a 3way
The term has become difficult to define
But strictly speaking it needs to handle 20hz well to be called a sub
Its still a simplification
Good subs that you actually dont hear nor feel, are said to enhance the spaciousness and live feeling of even big mains speakers
The quality of that has somehow changed when surround entered the scene
Later on some people have become more aware of the possible negative phase issues of subs
I believe its much better to eq the mains woofers down to maybe 30hz, if they can handle it
The quality of that has somehow changed when surround entered the scene
Later on some people have become more aware of the possible negative phase issues of subs
I believe its much better to eq the mains woofers down to maybe 30hz, if they can handle it
Ok. The difference is fairly simple.
In a system, a woofer will be part of the main speakers, helping the tweeter with the mid range. They have to play quite high up aswell (3-5kHz).
A subwoofer will have it's own box and amplifier, and will only play (usually) below 100Hz. If you have this section of the music missing, the music will lose a lot of it's dynamics, tempo and things like that.
For a woofer and a subwoofer of roughly equal price, the subwoofer will play lower than the woofer, but the woofer will play higher better than the sub.
Club, dance etc, usually has it's thuds around 60-80Hz, which is bass you can generally feel hitting you in the chest.
Bass guitars go to roughly 40Hz, so that's where rock and jazz will go.
The bass drums of a rock/jazz etc band will vary, but they're usually 40-50Hz.
You're not meant to be able to hear your sub, but you should be able to tell when it's not playing (ie, switched off).
In a system, a woofer will be part of the main speakers, helping the tweeter with the mid range. They have to play quite high up aswell (3-5kHz).
A subwoofer will have it's own box and amplifier, and will only play (usually) below 100Hz. If you have this section of the music missing, the music will lose a lot of it's dynamics, tempo and things like that.
For a woofer and a subwoofer of roughly equal price, the subwoofer will play lower than the woofer, but the woofer will play higher better than the sub.
Club, dance etc, usually has it's thuds around 60-80Hz, which is bass you can generally feel hitting you in the chest.
Bass guitars go to roughly 40Hz, so that's where rock and jazz will go.
The bass drums of a rock/jazz etc band will vary, but they're usually 40-50Hz.
You're not meant to be able to hear your sub, but you should be able to tell when it's not playing (ie, switched off).
Most "canned" music is above 60Hz. Much of low stuff we think we hear is the "missing fundamental" effect,
including bass guitar and tympani. Even Organ uses this effect for the lowest octave. Playing around with
GoldWave (audio editing program), I was surprised to find some dubstep, techno, etc with some energy
in the 20 - 30 Hz range.
Tom Danley has some great stuff here: http://danleysoundlabs.com/technical downloads.html
But you'll need more than bookshelf 2-way's...
including bass guitar and tympani. Even Organ uses this effect for the lowest octave. Playing around with
GoldWave (audio editing program), I was surprised to find some dubstep, techno, etc with some energy
in the 20 - 30 Hz range.
Tom Danley has some great stuff here: http://danleysoundlabs.com/technical downloads.html
But you'll need more than bookshelf 2-way's...
I wish it were that simple Chris.
Here's a 15" woofer specs:
Frequency response: 20-1,000 Hz * Magnet weight: 90 oz. * Fs: 19 Hz
and here's a 15" subwoofer:
Frequency range: 21 - 600 Hz * Fs: 24 Hz * Magnet weight: 150 oz.
Both are made by the same company under the same brand name.
Long before you were born the definition of a subwoofer (as I learned it) was an Fs of 20 Hz and below. It was something that could reach infrasonic. They were very rare indeed. Nowadays the term has lost any meaning other than it's usually a longer throw than it's counterpart of equal size.
Here's a 15" woofer specs:
Frequency response: 20-1,000 Hz * Magnet weight: 90 oz. * Fs: 19 Hz
and here's a 15" subwoofer:
Frequency range: 21 - 600 Hz * Fs: 24 Hz * Magnet weight: 150 oz.
Both are made by the same company under the same brand name.
Long before you were born the definition of a subwoofer (as I learned it) was an Fs of 20 Hz and below. It was something that could reach infrasonic. They were very rare indeed. Nowadays the term has lost any meaning other than it's usually a longer throw than it's counterpart of equal size.
^^^^^
Thats a good post. Most people don't have 15' woofers in main speakers. I don't know if you can buy that any more. It probably only exist in the DIY and very high end audio. Not counting PA systems anyway. Also, even if a 15" woofer can go low hooked up to a system, the 15" sub with it's dedicated amp should be more flat on the low end and not roll off as much then the woofer.
The difference between a woofer and sub woofer, frequency range aside, a dedicated sub woofer is going to have more xmas and higher power handling then a woofer. A true sub woofer shouldn't have to work over 100hz while a woofer, even a big one needs to mate up with a mid range driver. Aside from that a woofer (for home use anyway) is almost always going to be 8ohm, while a dedicated sub woofer is going to be 4ohm to work with a 4ohm stable sub amp.
For music, if someone had great 15" drivers in stereo mains, they wouldn't "need" a sub woofer. Unless maybe they buy the best of the best and want to go 15hz flat out. or lower?
Here is a little history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subwoofer Don't take it as 100% fact, but....
HTs have distorted what a sub woofer is, but even if a HT doesn't have a 20hz driver, it is still a dedicated speaker for the bass in the movie.
When I first learned what a sub woofer was, it was defined as producing sub sonic sounds. Now days, they are more for HT, but the hard core guys will still use them to product those low low hits with lots of power behind them.
Thats a good post. Most people don't have 15' woofers in main speakers. I don't know if you can buy that any more. It probably only exist in the DIY and very high end audio. Not counting PA systems anyway. Also, even if a 15" woofer can go low hooked up to a system, the 15" sub with it's dedicated amp should be more flat on the low end and not roll off as much then the woofer.
The difference between a woofer and sub woofer, frequency range aside, a dedicated sub woofer is going to have more xmas and higher power handling then a woofer. A true sub woofer shouldn't have to work over 100hz while a woofer, even a big one needs to mate up with a mid range driver. Aside from that a woofer (for home use anyway) is almost always going to be 8ohm, while a dedicated sub woofer is going to be 4ohm to work with a 4ohm stable sub amp.
For music, if someone had great 15" drivers in stereo mains, they wouldn't "need" a sub woofer. Unless maybe they buy the best of the best and want to go 15hz flat out. or lower?
Here is a little history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subwoofer Don't take it as 100% fact, but....
HTs have distorted what a sub woofer is, but even if a HT doesn't have a 20hz driver, it is still a dedicated speaker for the bass in the movie.
When I first learned what a sub woofer was, it was defined as producing sub sonic sounds. Now days, they are more for HT, but the hard core guys will still use them to product those low low hits with lots of power behind them.
Cal
This is where my other point comes in about the sub not playing as high as the woofer.
Apart from that, I think you're about right.
[rant] I read on an article (on wikiHow) on how to make a subwoofer.
It was terrible, and shows how ignorant some people are on audio.
One of the first lines was: if you don't have a subwoofer, you don't have enough bass.
I point to the Frankenstein to Cinerella thread in loudspeakers.
There were 2 18s (woofers) involved, and someone has the nerve to declare the a subwoofer is absolutely essential. [/rant]
This is where my other point comes in about the sub not playing as high as the woofer.
Apart from that, I think you're about right.
[rant] I read on an article (on wikiHow) on how to make a subwoofer.
It was terrible, and shows how ignorant some people are on audio.
One of the first lines was: if you don't have a subwoofer, you don't have enough bass.
I point to the Frankenstein to Cinerella thread in loudspeakers.
There were 2 18s (woofers) involved, and someone has the nerve to declare the a subwoofer is absolutely essential. [/rant]
A woofer goes lower than a tweeter or midrange.
Though the term “subwoofer” seems to mean different things to different people, technically it is an additional speaker that goes lower than the woofer, “sub” means below.
A “woofer” can be nearly any size and may or may not go very low, whether a subwoofer is needed depends on the program material and one’s desire to hear the bottom octaves.
There are many 18” speakers that are rolling off below 50 HZ, and 8” speakers capable of decent LF output in the 20 HZ range.
Popular music (and speakers) has long been driven by the electric four string bass guitar with a low E note of 40 HZ.
By the late 1990s, the five string bass with a low B note of 31 HZ had become quite available, and now is almost as common as the four string bass.
Between the 5 string bass, synthesized drum & bass lines, movie effects, digital recording and playback, the bottom end in pop music has dropped considerably.
Significant recorded level down to 25 HZ and below is now common, while speakers not designed to play that low are also common. Addition of a subwoofer that can reproduce the bottom octave (s) can be a big help both in reducing distortion in the upper speakers and hearing recordings the way they were intended to sound.
Though the term “subwoofer” seems to mean different things to different people, technically it is an additional speaker that goes lower than the woofer, “sub” means below.
A “woofer” can be nearly any size and may or may not go very low, whether a subwoofer is needed depends on the program material and one’s desire to hear the bottom octaves.
There are many 18” speakers that are rolling off below 50 HZ, and 8” speakers capable of decent LF output in the 20 HZ range.
Popular music (and speakers) has long been driven by the electric four string bass guitar with a low E note of 40 HZ.
By the late 1990s, the five string bass with a low B note of 31 HZ had become quite available, and now is almost as common as the four string bass.
Between the 5 string bass, synthesized drum & bass lines, movie effects, digital recording and playback, the bottom end in pop music has dropped considerably.
Significant recorded level down to 25 HZ and below is now common, while speakers not designed to play that low are also common. Addition of a subwoofer that can reproduce the bottom octave (s) can be a big help both in reducing distortion in the upper speakers and hearing recordings the way they were intended to sound.
Hmmm the lowest note on a piano keyboard is 27.5Hz so anything with piano in it could potentially be going this low. I'm sure that many orchestral instruments would go that low or close (double bass is 31Hz)
I think that any correlation between frequencies a speaker is capable of and its designation as being a sub-woofer or woofer have probably long since been lost to the marketing people....
I mean would you really call this tangband driver a subwoofer???
6.5" with a resonant freq of 38Hz somehow I don't think so. It would appear to me that anything with Long Throw is now considered by the marketing dept to be a subwoofer...
Tony.
I think that any correlation between frequencies a speaker is capable of and its designation as being a sub-woofer or woofer have probably long since been lost to the marketing people....
I mean would you really call this tangband driver a subwoofer???
6.5" with a resonant freq of 38Hz somehow I don't think so. It would appear to me that anything with Long Throw is now considered by the marketing dept to be a subwoofer...
Tony.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.