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Old 13th May 2009, 09:00 AM   #41
MaVo is offline MaVo  Germany
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Quote:
Originally posted by Don Snyder
One would think that DSP holds the answer to the "High Power Sine Wave" problem ...

How about it? Do you have the answer?

Don
I think the Behringer DSP has a level dependant equalizer. You could dial it into the lowest excursion maximum of the tapped horn and limit maximum output there.

Apart from that, i think one simply has to accomodate for the fact that most music has deep low tones, and this is since synthesizers are used in most genres out there, in the system design. Hard to pull of a "Sorry, but you can only play acoustic string bass over my subs" if you want to do live events If not, just build what you need.
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Old 13th May 2009, 09:03 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaVo
[B]

I think the Behringer DSP has a level dependant equalizer. You could dial it into the lowest excursion maximum of the tapped horn and limit maximum output there.
Yes it does and itīs one of the things I do when Iīm the tech myself and have everythin under controll... But you have to know exactly how your system behaves, otherwise itīs useless. Even swithcing my amps is difficult, so I only do it with the one system which never changes
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Old 13th May 2009, 12:41 PM   #43
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Great pictures! And a very interesting thread.

Someone mentioned EP2500 - I use this amp in my system, now as the main amp and prevously to drive some power hungry subs. Compared to some other lesser powered amps (Alesis and QSC both with 450w), the Behringer had a noticedable increase in headroom. I've only once managed to get it to clip, the others went into clipping the first time I tried them. I've seen independent tests, and this amp performs as well as (and in some cases slightly better) than many other amps including Crown when it comes to living up to their power ratings. They all measure below their ratings - it seems they know what to do to get the figure higher. It's like max SPL ratings on pro speakers. A fairly optimistic figure.

Is the Lab 12 a good driver for TH use?
I'm curious as I have two drivers which are similar (except double the xmax) - they are sitting on the HT floor looking pretty at the moment.

Regarding vented vs TH, it's my understanding that a tapped horn can increase efficiency and extension over a broader range with a bigger box. A vented box requires a certain size to gain extension, and once that size is reached, there is no further efficiency gain by making the box bigger. The vent gives a narrow band of gain, yielding an extra octave of extension, but above that we rely on the direct radiator efficiency of the driver. A TH increases effiency over it's entire bandwidth.

I recall Danley stating on a forum post that a TH can increase sensitivity by 10 db and reduce excursion by a factor of 4.

Regarding how this TH sounds, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how it compares to other subs. What have you heard that sounds similar? Have you heard something that sounds better?
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Old 13th May 2009, 01:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Regarding how this TH sounds, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how it compares to other subs. What have you heard that sounds similar? Have you heard something that sounds better?
For me a TH brings two worlds together: Efficinecy and clarity, rich details of a front loaded horn and the compact sizes of bigger Vented Boxes plus the capability to run single, which many horns donīt have.
A sloppy build TH can sound worse than a good vented box, but as soon as you "do it right", itīs two different worlds IMHO.
A lot of good frontloaded horns can sound very good, too and depending on the music you listen to might be better suited, but also at the extend of having much more volume with the boxes.
The thing that sounded the best so far was a veeeery big stack of very small sealed 10"... Increase of radiation resistance because of a lllooooot of Sd is the key here... These Systems are very clean but require way too much material and volume.
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Old 13th May 2009, 05:00 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by paulspencer
Is the Lab 12 a good driver for TH use?
I'm curious as I have two drivers which are similar (except double the xmax) - they are sitting on the HT floor looking pretty at the moment.
The Lab12 has too soft a suspension and too low Fs. It's a good driver for the money, and available.

As far as your "similar" drivers, only Hornresp knows. Download a copy and check them out.

Good Luck,
Don
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Old 18th June 2009, 07:10 AM   #46
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Default some measurements

i measured the one that me and chris (my brother) built:

i was using a behringer measurement mic plugged into a m audio mobile pre. Measurements were made using the signal generator in smaart
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Old 18th June 2009, 07:26 AM   #47
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Old 18th June 2009, 01:34 PM   #48
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Don Snyder

The Lab12 has too soft a suspension and too low Fs.
For prosound, but not HIFI/HT if size isn't a major issue.

GM
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Old 18th June 2009, 01:39 PM   #49
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Default Re: some measurements

Quote:
Originally posted by CrazyTubax86
i measured the one that me and chris (my brother) built:
Thanks, which one, Don's?

GM
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Old 18th June 2009, 02:47 PM   #50
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@GM - Yes, the same config as the opening post in this thread. Chris built two cabinets using OSB.

@CrazyTubax86 - Did you measure it outside (2Pi) or inside? Subjectively, how does it sound? Chris asked about extending
it, to port it thru a door. If L34 is extended no more than 8 inches it should work OK. Room effects overshadow everything at these
frequencys.

I wasn't "dissing" the LAB12, just stating why it isn't perfect for this box.
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