Multiple Small Subs - Geddes Approach

[randybes]

Originally posted by markus76
I don't know what Todd's box exactly will be capable of and what it will cost, but it looks like it will be the cheaper solution in the end:

- entry level AVR (because it uses standard bass management)
- 4 (?) cheap subs (H $100 each)
- SFM-box

Earl:
- mid level AVR (because preamp out is needed)
- 3 subs (H $400–500 each)
- Behringer DCX2496
- summing stage if you want to "make everything right"

Best, Markus

Do we have a clue as to when Todd's box will be released, if ever?

[markus76]

No, we don't know. There were no official announcements.

Best, Markus

[john k...]

Earl I have a couple of questions for you.

First, you said your subs "will be very close to the AI BB15 and BB12 http://www.ai-audio.com/products_bb12.html" Now, those subs are listed as, 31.5" x 23.6" x 23.6", which isn't "small" and frankly I wouldn't really call them subs at all since the cut off frequency is listed as -6dB at 60 Hz for the 12 and 50 Hz for the 15. That is hardly a decent woofer let alone sunwoofer. Are your woofer specs in the same range, size and cut off? (I'm wondering about the Ai box size spec since the Ai woofer all show the same box size.)

Second, there is talk of not routing the mains (or other channels through the DCX. That means that any channels which bypass the DCX will be void of the DCX processing delay. I realize that the processing delay isn't that long and we are talking about low frequency here but any comments?

[soongsc]

I would assume PA subs and home subs have different requirements? Since "Flying hardware" is mentioned. This is what I would assume.

[gedlee]

Markus

My Pioneer receiver cost me $150 and has Preamp outs. If thats not entry level then I have no idea what you are talking about. I think your numbers and claims are all wrong.

How does the JBL box get its signals?

Why would the JBL system require any less expensive subs than mine? Certainly JBL subs aren't cheap.

You sound like your just trying to be contrary.

John

I didn't say that my subs would be identical to the AI subs only that they would be similar. There are a lot of mistakes on that site, but I have no control over it. The Ai subs were intended to be used as ULF and BB, the ULF sub was what you call a "sub". The BB subs were intended as LF sources for using about the room as multiple subs. I have not decided if I would make ULF subs. I'm not happy with mine and they are a real pain to build. If more LF extension is required than the sub can produce, then the DCX can add gain (kind of like a dipole!). The drivers are massive and are claimed to handle 1000 watts so overloading them is not an issue.

My 12" sub is 18" x 18" x 15", which is not that big for what it can produce.

The delay through the DCX is stated to be 1.5 ms. That is not going to affect anything and is included in my analysis software in any case.

[markus76]

Earl,

I just look at the facts. So should you. I compared the sparse preliminary information the public has.
By the way, I forgot the additional amps your setup needs in my listing.

I don't know if JBL requires the use of their own subs. JBLs BassQ does not. Time will tell.

I didn't look at every AVR out there but did a quick check and looked at Denon and Pioneer. The cheapest current model from Pioneer with 7 preamp outs is the VSX-1018AH-K at $600.

Best, Markus

[randybes]

Originally posted by markus76
Earl,

I just look at the facts. So should you. I compared the sparse preliminary information the public has.
By the way, I forgot the additional amps your setup needs in my listing.

I don't know if JBL requires the use of their own subs. JBLs BassQ does not. Time will tell.

I didn't look at every AVR out there but did a quick check and looked at Denon and Pioneer. The cheapest current model from Pioneer with 7 preamp outs is the VSX-1018AH-K at $600.

Best, Markus

Isn't the fact that JBL really isn't offering Todd's box (and he didn't reply to my post on the likely cost) make this comparision silly.

[gedlee]

Originally posted by randybes

Isn't the fact that JBL really isn't offering Todd's box (and he didn't reply to my post on the likely cost) make this comparision silly.

Markus whole discussion is silly.

[markus76]

No need to be rude.

Best, Markus

[john k...]

Earl,

I understand that the Ai subs are not yours. Sitll, can you comment on the -3 or -6 dB points of your system?