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Old 10th December 2008, 01:57 AM   #11
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I also take the multi sub approach, but not really small so therefor i don't know if this is a healthy comparison to what Mr. Geddes suggests. Front and center below the screen is a single ported 15" crossed at 80hz. Directly in front of the listening position is an LLT console table with dual downfiring 10"s and on either side is sealed 18"s crossed lower and eQ'd for a flatter response. In room response is very smooth and i'm pretty happy with it but for HT you can never have to much.

I believe a properly placed IB or mutiple IB manifolds is probobly the best way to go but until i convince my better half that it's OK to cut holes in the walls and ceilings, i'll leave well enough alone.
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Old 10th December 2008, 02:02 AM   #12
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Why do you people spend that much money on subs for a home listening application?
More than 3 subs is overkill and improves the situation only marginally.
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Old 10th December 2008, 02:43 AM   #13
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Three is what I'm proposing. All disguised as unassuming end tables and blended into the decor. Seems downright unobtrusive compared to the twin 23 ft3 folded bass horns that used to occupy my listening space! I'm getting pretty great results with the two cabinets, so I'm needing a push to add the third......will probably happen, but I'm not in a big hurry and weighing options....

Jerrod
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Old 10th December 2008, 02:44 AM   #14
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
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Quote:
Originally posted by jlharden
What's your thoughts on the Maelstrom's sound quality, frequency response, etc. Would you make the same driver selection if you were to do the ULF setup again?
I would recommend an XTi instead of a K2, though, because it should be cheaper and the built-in EQ is very useful.

Let me put it this way. I doubt I could reliably tell a difference between the Aura NS12, the Maelstrom-X, and the JBL W15GTi in my nearfield system if I didn't know what was playing and they were SPL-limited to the limits of the smallest piston (the Aura). It is simply exceptional, doing everything I could ask.

If I were starting from scratch and knew what I've learned through experimentation and reading since I started down the path that led me to the Maelstrom-X...I don't honestly know. I originally went with the Maelstrom-X because it addressed the shortcomings (in my system) of the Ascendant Avalanche 18 and was a drop-in replacement. And that I bought because my previous super-sub (three Peerless XLS12's with PR's) looked kind of funny when mains having drivers the same size as the sub drivers.

So, I'd probably want the main sub to be an 18" or maybe 15" driver regardless. (The other two would be exactly what they are, because they're beautifully built and I like the looks.) No science behind that thought, just because. A little bit smaller cab would be nice, but not necessary, though I'd spend more money to commission a cab that was finished like the other two subs. In the end, I imagine my choice would probably still come down to the Maelstrom-X, JBL W15GTi, the Aura NS15, with the winner chosen based on cost and availability. Unless I found a great deal on the 21" B&C driver, which looks great for a small closed box with EQ.

Quote:
Originally posted by markus76
Why do you people spend that much money on subs for a home listening application
Looks, mostly. Like I wrote earlier, with 12" mains, a 12" main sub looked kind of odd. In my head, at least. Also, to some degree a perception of effortlessness. If one knows in his head that he's never going to breach the performance limits of his system, then one stops worrying about such things.

In terms of price-performance, you're probably on the right track. Though I might have built one XLS12 or XXLS12-based main sub and two SLS10 or SLS12 subs if I had Nathan10's.
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Old 10th December 2008, 02:51 AM   #15
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Thanks Pallas for your thoughts. I already have the K2 and a Driverack 260 for nearly infinite crossover and eq options. The Rythmik's are exceptionally articulate and I don't wish to lose that with the third sub. That gives some weight to adding a third identical sub, but I do have the necessary amplifier/DSP to explore other options. I will have to look into that *really* big B&C! Thanks again for your thoughts.

Jerrod
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Old 10th December 2008, 03:02 AM   #16
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
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Oh, that's a different story. An XTi won't be cheaper for you!

The B&C I was talking about is the 21SW150. 6" voicecoil, 21" diameter, 15mm xmax I think. Ironically, it has almost exactly the same volume displacement as the Maelstrom-X. But with the bigger VC I would expect power compression to be even less of an issue.

I probably would not get a third identical subwoofer. If you want to stick with a known quantity, you might want to get the smaller Rhythmik instead for your third sub. (Or, if you want monster SPL, stack your current two 15's and add two 12" ones as "broadband" subs.) It is easier to place a smaller sub than a bigger one, after all, and placement is more important than unit quality IMO. And like I wrote earlier, I have not noticed any problems stemming from having much more volume displacement in the big sub than in the secondary ones.
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Old 10th December 2008, 03:08 AM   #17
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I think you guys did not understand why and how multiple subwoofers should be used. Have you ever read the Welti paper I linked on my webpage?
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Old 10th December 2008, 05:13 AM   #18
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
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To whom are you talking, Marcus?

The whole point of employing multiple subwoofers is to smooth out in-room bass frequency response, over as wide a listening area as possible. Nothing more, and nothing less.

And yes, I read the Welti paper (along with Dr. Geddes' postings on several fora) long ago.
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Old 10th December 2008, 09:49 AM   #19
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default Cal, take a trip and never leave the farm....

Cal, take a drive and come on down (er ...over, er... you know what I mean)
I'll treat you to the "Spirits". Stereo subs with lots o' juice and Dave's old Jordans. Methinks yer jaw might hit the ground , so wear a helmet with a chin strap ta keep it up where it should be

Dave, I think the concept of multiple subs was effectively demonstrated at your place in the summer, the SD7/ fullrange types (if I remember correctly), and hey, your room is asymmetrical, multiple woofers/subs could be used to great effect (for bass reinforcement and "smoothness")

However...I can thank none other than Moray for demonstrating some subs to me years ago (15? 20? has it been that long?), in a place far, far away, in a land before time...

So many look at only the frequency response of sub systems. There are spatial cues in the nether regions, and of course it all depends where one might cross over the sub(s).

Peace

stew
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Old 10th December 2008, 04:51 PM   #20
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cal Weldon
I am yet to hear a multi sub system that didn't sound cluttered and muddy. I will stick with one bass unit thank you.


Cal

Then they were setup wrong. I have yet to hear single sub that sounds as good as multiple subs.
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