Sabbelbacke said:Thanx for looking closer than I didYou are absolutely right!! Hm, this indeed is strange for Danley to "tweak" his specs.
I suspect he may have finally got just too pi**ed off with other manufacturers over-optimistic specs making his speakers look bad (or at least, less superior) in comparison.
If so this would be a pity (with my engineering hat on) but perhaps sadly inevitable (with my marketing hat on)...
Ian
I am looking for specs on Danleys new "Hot Rods"
Dual 12 inch PA speakers. (least the pic looks to be 12" ers)
Funny screamerusa.
I do that allot. Like wtf is going on and then realize it is because I didn't do something.
As a side note.
I started messing around and pulled another db from 50 to 90 Hz on your design.
So I have to ask WHY do you have to have a TH cabinet?
A 1850 horn (or 186 maybe) will work better for this driver combo. Albeit with a lot steeper drop off than the TH but my sim of your box show's that doesn't matter because of Xmax limitation. The 1850 horn is 1 db lower at 40 and 41 Hz but 4 db higher at 50. Plus the wave is allot smoother. Just realized the 1850 and JBells TH for the driver has the same initial response curve. Least from 34 through 50 Hz.
Dual 12 inch PA speakers. (least the pic looks to be 12" ers)
Funny screamerusa.
I do that allot. Like wtf is going on and then realize it is because I didn't do something.
As a side note.
I started messing around and pulled another db from 50 to 90 Hz on your design.
So I have to ask WHY do you have to have a TH cabinet?
A 1850 horn (or 186 maybe) will work better for this driver combo. Albeit with a lot steeper drop off than the TH but my sim of your box show's that doesn't matter because of Xmax limitation. The 1850 horn is 1 db lower at 40 and 41 Hz but 4 db higher at 50. Plus the wave is allot smoother. Just realized the 1850 and JBells TH for the driver has the same initial response curve. Least from 34 through 50 Hz.
Here you go.
2.83V plots
1850 Horn. Designed for singles and groups of 4+:
USB Horn. Designed for doubles or multiples there of:
Meant USB not 186 horn. Fixed
2.83V plots
1850 Horn. Designed for singles and groups of 4+:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
USB Horn. Designed for doubles or multiples there of:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Meant USB not 186 horn. Fixed
Which cabinet are you referring to?
The issue with a TH is that I have the 15" drivers.
The goal was ro replace double 15's or 18's with single boxes.
I'd certainly be interested in any buildable box that would do that
with the drivers I have. I need to go higher than 100hz and 15" drivers are better sounding.
The issue with a TH is that I have the 15" drivers.
The goal was ro replace double 15's or 18's with single boxes.
I'd certainly be interested in any buildable box that would do that
with the drivers I have. I need to go higher than 100hz and 15" drivers are better sounding.
Flip, what screamers and I are referring to, is the hornresp inputs for the 1850 horn, with a 15" like the 3015lf. What you posted looks like the 18" pd1850 driver.
Also screamers is looking for solid at 40hz. neither the 1850 (50hz) or especially the 186 (60hz) go there.
can you post the hornresp INPUTS for these horns with a 3015lf?
thanks
Also screamers is looking for solid at 40hz. neither the 1850 (50hz) or especially the 186 (60hz) go there.
can you post the hornresp INPUTS for these horns with a 3015lf?
thanks
As far as Danley's specs being off.....
Judging by the box I'm working the kinks out of I feel that those specs are probably on the money if you read the fine print as you pointed out.
After breaking in a new 4015 for 6 hours yesterday, this thing is putting out over 103dbfrom 50-110hz +-1db, 110db at 120hz,
but dropping quickly below 45. Keep in mind that most of the previous attempts could not beat the direct radiator box from 70-120hz.
Getting 106db Average depending on how you look at it is concievely possible from this layman's point of view given Master Danley's skills. 4 ohm helps.
Most High sensitivity boxes I've seen run out of DB too fast and at too steep a curve to be usefull for small combat audio use.
They are great if you have a semi and a crew and can use lots of them. So far in testing I've abused the TH boxes harder than any double cabs I have had, and they have eliminated a couple of traditional horn designs I bought and a couple of commercial cabs.
There is also a "Sound" with these boxes that is quite interesting and more consistent room to room than some other horns I've played with.
I find it interesting that the Tapped horn shares many similarities with scoop bins because scoops are still widely used in DJ circles today. Unlike scoops though, you can get pleasing results with only one TH on a small system. Folded horns seem to need herds to have any real effect (I love em but), the TH has "Balls".
Judging by the box I'm working the kinks out of I feel that those specs are probably on the money if you read the fine print as you pointed out.
After breaking in a new 4015 for 6 hours yesterday, this thing is putting out over 103dbfrom 50-110hz +-1db, 110db at 120hz,
but dropping quickly below 45. Keep in mind that most of the previous attempts could not beat the direct radiator box from 70-120hz.
Getting 106db Average depending on how you look at it is concievely possible from this layman's point of view given Master Danley's skills. 4 ohm helps.
Most High sensitivity boxes I've seen run out of DB too fast and at too steep a curve to be usefull for small combat audio use.
They are great if you have a semi and a crew and can use lots of them. So far in testing I've abused the TH boxes harder than any double cabs I have had, and they have eliminated a couple of traditional horn designs I bought and a couple of commercial cabs.
There is also a "Sound" with these boxes that is quite interesting and more consistent room to room than some other horns I've played with.
I find it interesting that the Tapped horn shares many similarities with scoop bins because scoops are still widely used in DJ circles today. Unlike scoops though, you can get pleasing results with only one TH on a small system. Folded horns seem to need herds to have any real effect (I love em but), the TH has "Balls".
screamersusa said:
I don't think Tom's specs are off as such, the TH-115 is 106dB for 2.82V (1W into 8 ohms nominal) -- but this isn't 106dB/W, for a 4 ohm nominal speaker it's 103dB/W.
However, the IEC specification for an "8 ohm nominal impedance" speaker allows a minimum impedance of 80% of nominal which is 6.4ohms. Zmin for the TH-115 is quoted at 5 ohms, so it could be classed as a 6 ohms speaker not an 8 ohm one. This would knock about 1.5dB off the "dB/W" rating, so 104.5dB/W would be a fairer number for comparison.
I still don't think there's anything around which can beat them...
Ian
iand said:
I have to second that.
In addition....I tweaked the first stage this morning and the blasted thing is slamming out a peak of108db at 70hz 1w 1m. It lost a db above that, and gained a db below. Cabinet resonance?
This is certainly the most interesting design I've ever toyed with, although I'm not playing...I'm trying to save my rear end and maybe a few others as well.
Since it appears the big boys will be hurting for longer than I anticipated, instead of competing against Cerwin Vega's, Peaveys, and occasional Yorkies and self powered Mackies and JBLS in the low budget market, now it appears to be a long battle against Meyer, EAW, Turbosound, and other top shelf Rigs slumming along in the same market. Here There's a big Yorkie TS9 rig, A bunch of big Meyers and Huge EAW rigs doing shows under $1,000. If some of us can get out there again with a decent DIY tapped or some real Danleys we can hold on untill the big boys can go back up to their normal markets. That's why I'm literally killing myself to make this box work. Cheers.
JBell
That 1850 graph is using your/Screamers 3015 specs.
I Just copied them from what you posted here. Also the second graph is for the USB sub. Not the 186. I will have to test out the 186 asap since it is the "little brother" to the 1850 horn.
As far as the 40Hz goes.
It looks to be only 1 db different between a small bandwidth (40 and 41 hz) and then the same and then out performs both your and Screamers TH but at a cost of being a bit larger.
1850 = 515.8 Lt
JBells 3015 TH=420 Lt
Screamers 3015 TH =365.7
Which is why I put the USB sub into the mix because it is only 175 Lt.
That 1850 graph is using your/Screamers 3015 specs.
I Just copied them from what you posted here. Also the second graph is for the USB sub. Not the 186. I will have to test out the 186 asap since it is the "little brother" to the 1850 horn.
As far as the 40Hz goes.
It looks to be only 1 db different between a small bandwidth (40 and 41 hz) and then the same and then out performs both your and Screamers TH but at a cost of being a bit larger.
1850 = 515.8 Lt
JBells 3015 TH=420 Lt
Screamers 3015 TH =365.7
Which is why I put the USB sub into the mix because it is only 175 Lt.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Huh?
The graphs I posted are for the 1850 Horn and the USB.
I had typed 186 Horn by mistake. I didn't notice until afterward that I had used the USB.
The 1850 is designed for an 18"
but works well with the 3015 as shown.
The graph for the USB is with a single 3015.
I haven't simm'd it using 2 though.
The graphs I posted are for the 1850 Horn and the USB.
I had typed 186 Horn by mistake. I didn't notice until afterward that I had used the USB.
The 1850 is designed for an 18"
but works well with the 3015 as shown.
The graph for the USB is with a single 3015.
I haven't simm'd it using 2 though.
They are horn loaded kick bins.
Like I said, I didn't mean to post those. Just wasn't paying attention to when I copied in HR to put the 3015 in it. Thought I was doing the 186 Horn. The USB is a dual 18" design. The plot I posted was a single 3015. Either way it is not a box I recommend for what you want.
It is a kick bin and not a sub bin.
Like I said, I didn't mean to post those. Just wasn't paying attention to when I copied in HR to put the 3015 in it. Thought I was doing the 186 Horn. The USB is a dual 18" design. The plot I posted was a single 3015. Either way it is not a box I recommend for what you want.
It is a kick bin and not a sub bin.
I think the CTH1524 box is done. I like the sound of it even though it's not as heavy sounding as I'd hoped.
Last thing is to try some different baffles on the driver to interface it to the horn mouth better in the cone facing into the mouth position. I'm hoping to get that db or so that's lost below 55hz in that position by incorporating some of the unity horn concepts.
I really don't want to lose the upper range articulation and clarity that sounds fantastic for blues/R&B bass guitar.
I did a show tonight on 4 double 18's and that reset my perspective on what non-diy boxes sound like. I like my TH better.
Jbell's box goes lower better than mine but that was expected as this one was built for semi-pro mobile use.
Last thing is to try some different baffles on the driver to interface it to the horn mouth better in the cone facing into the mouth position. I'm hoping to get that db or so that's lost below 55hz in that position by incorporating some of the unity horn concepts.
I really don't want to lose the upper range articulation and clarity that sounds fantastic for blues/R&B bass guitar.
I did a show tonight on 4 double 18's and that reset my perspective on what non-diy boxes sound like. I like my TH better.
Jbell's box goes lower better than mine but that was expected as this one was built for semi-pro mobile use.
Any Improvements Please.
Well after probably 30 tries. I give up.
I've tried chambers, compression, bigger, smaller, tapered and simple. I can't seem to get a decent size fairly easy to build box to put out 103 from 45-125 or so at 1w 1m.
Here is the link to the CTH1524 in it's simplest form that I will reluctantly have to build unless some kind soul has any suggestions other than buy a Danley. If I could I would.
I need to carry six of them max but will probably use 4 most of the time.
I've been reading every post here.. every site I can find...even a few wierd bits here and there till I'm blind and I've tried lots of them. The most complex boxes I've built sound the best but lack either bottom end or top end. There has got to be a way to increase one or the other. I tried resonators but they only semed to cut the frequencies I was tuning them for. I don't fully understand them.
By the way, the double 18's were sold due to client issues and to help fund the tapped horns so I sort of put myself in a bind.
the Link is
http://www.screamersusa.com/CTH1524
Thanks.
Whoops.. that's a 5,000 sq foot space not 500.
Well after probably 30 tries. I give up.
I've tried chambers, compression, bigger, smaller, tapered and simple. I can't seem to get a decent size fairly easy to build box to put out 103 from 45-125 or so at 1w 1m.
Here is the link to the CTH1524 in it's simplest form that I will reluctantly have to build unless some kind soul has any suggestions other than buy a Danley. If I could I would.
I need to carry six of them max but will probably use 4 most of the time.
I've been reading every post here.. every site I can find...even a few wierd bits here and there till I'm blind and I've tried lots of them. The most complex boxes I've built sound the best but lack either bottom end or top end. There has got to be a way to increase one or the other. I tried resonators but they only semed to cut the frequencies I was tuning them for. I don't fully understand them.
By the way, the double 18's were sold due to client issues and to help fund the tapped horns so I sort of put myself in a bind.
the Link is
http://www.screamersusa.com/CTH1524
Thanks.
Whoops.. that's a 5,000 sq foot space not 500.
Does it work for you, to design like Klipsch? (use existing boundaries to increase the size of your cabinet, like K-horn) Build tall scoop looking cabinet and plate a pair of cabinets at about 60-90 degrees? or when doing 6, having groups of 3 of them floor firing at 30 degrees? I'm assuming for most shows, set up space is not the limiting factor.
That would get you the length and mouth area for the spl you need, while still having something transportable.
I'll noodle around with construction ideas, and if I find something of interest, I'll post it. (something like the attached sketch, using 2" hook and loop to join the cabinets on setup) I realize that 90 degree's doesn't get you alot of extra length. But a 24x24x48 cabinet at 60 degrees has some interesting possibilities.
off hand question, are you testing with a C-weighted spl meter, and are you converting your measurements to flat?
That would get you the length and mouth area for the spl you need, while still having something transportable.
I'll noodle around with construction ideas, and if I find something of interest, I'll post it. (something like the attached sketch, using 2" hook and loop to join the cabinets on setup) I realize that 90 degree's doesn't get you alot of extra length. But a 24x24x48 cabinet at 60 degrees has some interesting possibilities.
off hand question, are you testing with a C-weighted spl meter, and are you converting your measurements to flat?
