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Old 9th September 2008, 09:21 PM   #1
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Default Biggest Bang for The Buck?

After discovering that tapped horns don't like drivers with a low FS, I began messing around with some high FS drivers. The more I evaluated drivers, the more I noticed that high FS drivers are *expensive.*

So I'm looking for your help. I have a catch 22 here. If I want to build a set of tapped horns, I'll have to drop $630 on three prosound woofers. If I want to build a bandpass sub, I can drop $175 on seven 8" woofers and get 3db less output. I could even get the same output with fourteen 8" woofers, if I could find somewhere to hide all the subs.

The way we can figure out what offers the most "bang for the buck" is by examining the displacement vs cost. Displacement is simply xmax multiplied by cone displacement (SD.)

So what's the deal? Are there any woofers that offer a lot of displacement for the dollar, with an FS over 40hz?

By the way, if anyone's interested in some cheap bandpass subs and they have amplifier power to burn, check out diycable. I'm not associated with these guys in any way, but my research shows that their woofers offer a re-donk-u-lous amount of displacement for not a lot of money. Even the $350 Maelstrom is a screaming deal. Out of twelve drivers which I evaluated, their woofers took ALL the top spots. EVERY ONE! Even the amazingly inexpensive Audax HT240G0 and MCM 55-2421 were beat down by diycable.

(See the pdf)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf displacement for the buck.pdf (66.6 KB, 212 views)
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Old 9th September 2008, 10:09 PM   #2
MaVo is offline MaVo  Germany
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According to Floyd Tooles papers on room acoustics (my own observations agree with this), four subs would be the best for good sound quality. I would tend to 12 inch woofers, since i think they are comparably cheap. Additionally, this size field offers a big diversity in TS parameters.
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Old 9th September 2008, 10:14 PM   #3
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If you take amplifier cost out of the equation, fifteens are pretty compelling. Admittedly, there are a lot of twelves out there. This thread came together when I'd crafted a tapped horn which I was happy with, only to find that I could get more maximum SPL out of a $150 woofer in a bandpass, because the woofer I was going to use for the tapped horn had such low XMAX.

For an extreme example of this, I was able to create a tapped horn sim which ran out of excursion with ONE WATT! LOL?! Can you imagine that? It used the Galaxy Audio S5N-8, which has high efficiency and low xmax.
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Old 10th September 2008, 02:08 AM   #4
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Patrick,

Exactly how much SPL are you seeking? If you are going to run 4 subs, then I would think that 8" or 10" woofers in a tapped horn would be more than enough. I have built several tapped horns. Each has been quite a different design so I could learn the +/- of each design. I personally prefer push-pull tapped horns for the reduction in even order harmonics. However, pro sound woofers with low compliance suspension also work very well at keeping the second order harmonics in check. As seen in the other tapped horn threads, the Eminence Definimax 4012HO is a very good choice in a taped horn. Just one of these will rattle everything in your house. So, what point is there in even looking at woofers that have more displacement than the 4012HO? If the 4012HO makes everything unlistenable because it rattles everything and is overkill, why pursue more? It just doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 10th September 2008, 03:23 AM   #5
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the lab 12 is only $130 or so.
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Old 10th September 2008, 07:07 PM   #6
contour is offline contour  Netherlands
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Ciare 12.00SW has it all, and not expensive.

It is a 12" with a magnet/coil assembly which are normally used on big 18" woofers.

Best regards,

Walt
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Old 10th September 2008, 11:11 PM   #7
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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The Eminence Lab12 has too low Fs which makes it difficult to design with. Tapped horns like woofers with higher Fs. The Ciare is a good choice, but is well over $200 in the States. Even so, a single 12.00SW in a fairly small tapped horn can hit over 117dB in half space. That is nothing to laugh at.
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Old 10th September 2008, 11:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by JLH
The Eminence Lab12 has too low Fs which makes it difficult to design with. Tapped horns like woofers with higher Fs. The Ciare is a good choice, but is well over $200 in the States. Even so, a single 12.00SW in a fairly small tapped horn can hit over 117dB in half space. That is nothing to laugh at.

Has anyone taken a look at the PDF I attached? All of the suggestions so far don't compete with a pile of MCM 55-2421s, or a DIYCable woofer in a bandpass.

There's *gotta* be a better deal than the DIYCable Tempest-X, but I haven't found anything close yet (except a pile of MCM eights.)

I'm willing to entertain the use of multiple woofers of course, but it seems that the bigger woofers offer a displacement advantage.
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Old 10th September 2008, 11:45 PM   #9
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I found an affordable high efficiency woofer on clearance over at parts express. It's $63 and has parameters comparable to the B&C 12PS100 which I believe is being used in the TH-Mini, and the P-Audio SN12-MB which I have laying around here.

Unfortunately, the MCM still clobbers it

MCM scores 70 on displacement vs cost, the SoundTech scores 34. B&C 12PS100 scores 21 and the P-Audio scores 18.

Someone's GOTTA know of a woofer that offers more bang for the buck...

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/flyer8e/023_pe8e.pdf
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Old 10th September 2008, 11:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
There's *gotta* be a better deal than the DIYCable Tempest-X
Why would you think that? Currently the exodus line are at the top of the $/displacement pile or at least very close, as far as I know. A couple of years ago, mach5 had the title (especially for those of us in Canada, before shipping was included in the price), and 5 years ago the king of cool was the Avalanche.

Compare the price of the Avalanche to the exodus line and it's easy to see prices are coming down fast. And in a couple of years someone new is going to try to compete for the $/displacement crown. The trend indicates it will continue to skew in the consumer's favor, so just wait a bit if you need something better/cheaper.
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