PA sound system - Page 4 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Subwoofers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th September 2008, 02:58 PM   #31
jbell is offline jbell  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: .
rademakers makes a good point -- where you are filling a small room, and size of cabinets matters, don't dismiss the often overlooked 2x15 direct radiator.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-598c.pdf

yes, I'm the first to point you to high efficiency cabinets -- TH, BP, etc.. and I had good success with a 3015lf in a 21cu.ft. TH, however for only 13.5cu.ft, you're good to 40hz,and can achieve 131db in half space -- wall or corner loaded is much louder.

The 3015lf can be had for under $150, and it's an extremely simple build. If you go this route, when you're ready to 'upgrade' to bigger cabinets, the 3015lf is probably the best all around 15 for horns/bp designs in my opinion. (anyone spec a X1 style cabinet for a 3015lf???)

So, WAG on a total system. (if you like behringer stuff)

$350 in pair of OT12 (billfitzmaurice.com designed PA top)
$400 in dual 3015lf ported cabinet
$350 ep2500 amp
$250 dcx2496
$200 rx1202fx

$1550 total, which leaves plenty of budget left over for rack case, and other toys...
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2008, 05:40 AM   #32
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Hey guys - thanks for the additional input ...

After much deliberation I think I may just spring the extra cash for shipping and order a Void v18-1000 or 1200 [hopefully the 1200] and grab it from a company where the US exchange isn't so bad.

I'm feeling like the void is really where the value for the X1 will come to life.

I also figure that i'll start with one and then in the future I build a 2nd one when i'm throwing bigger events.

Any of you guys have any advice on aquiring the void v18 ?? Any particular company I may be able to go through that'll give me the best deal ??

:::

And for the mids/tops - ease of cabinet build seems to be a bigger issue than I had originally thought. I showed the x15 plans to a friend and he felt as though he needed some "clearer" plans - maybe its just because he's used to hobby box builds and custom carpentry that its looking complicated.

I'm going to take the same approach with the mids/tops that I am with the X1 = best ratio of - place in the system - performance - ease of build - price. In that order.

And I guess since my hearts set on the X1 i'm going to choose the mids/tops that would best suite it - at a fair price and relatively easy build as well assuming they are a proper fit with the v18 loaded X1.

Do you feel the x15's will be appropriate with a certain set of drivers??

:::

Also - as far as Behringer goes - I did a google search for that 2500 amp and one of the first posts was

"problems with behringer ..." So I think i'm going to do some more research on those aspects as this project progress' into proper amps for the drivers/cabinets I go with.

But thank you for illustrating the price list and the possibilities ... It filled in the total a picture a bit more allowing me to see clearer as to where I want to go with this beautiful project you guys are helping me with

My buddy dropped the question of what material I was going to use today so at this point i'm wondering -

What would be the best cabinet material to go with? How would that factor into cost ?

Ideally I want to build a lasting system that'll hold up for a solid 3+ years while staying in and around the 2000 mark - a bit over but under 2500 is good ...

thanks
~ meta
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2008, 04:02 PM   #33
jbell is offline jbell  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: .
If you have a lowes around with auroco plywood, that's the stuff you want to build with. Not as expensive or heavy as baltic birch, but good quality stuff.
Google for duratex, best speaker finish -- bar none. Not much more expensive than paint.
Use a heavy texture roller, or preferred a hopper gun (harbor freight 2471-1VGA)

on behringer, yes, some of their stuff has solder crack issues, etc.. which is why you've been cautioned on the dcx2496. However, bang for the buck, some of their stuff is a good deal.
I've not had a ep2500 fail or have issues, and I have about a dozen church's using them... but then that's nice comfortable install locations, not banging around in the back of a truck, etc.. on gigs. Some say the ep2500 is a direct rip off of the qsc... not sure on that, but if true -- is a good thing.

You can't go wrong with qsc, or crown for amps, but that'll stretch your budget a little.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2008, 09:45 PM   #34
iand is offline iand  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Quote:
Originally posted by metaverse
Hey guys - thanks for the additional input ...

After much deliberation I think I may just spring the extra cash for shipping and order a Void v18-1000 or 1200 [hopefully the 1200] and grab it from a company where the US exchange isn't so bad.

I'm feeling like the void is really where the value for the X1 will come to life.

I also figure that i'll start with one and then in the future I build a 2nd one when i'm throwing bigger events.

Any of you guys have any advice on aquiring the void v18 ?? Any particular company I may be able to go through that'll give me the best deal ??

thanks
~ meta
The V18-1000 is recommended for the X1 not the V18-1200 -- the 1200 has a longer coil with lower BL and a less rigid cone than the 1000, the 1200 is designed for reflex boxes.

UK supplier Pro Audio Parts is next door to the Void factory :-)

http://www.proaudioparts.co.uk/

Ian
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2008, 10:20 PM   #35
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: stockholm
Check the QSC GX series of amps.
I have no experience of them myself but the price seems to be quite right and QSC has a good record of reliability.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2008, 01:20 PM   #36
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Ian, they're next door neighbours for a good reason as you know...

electroaudio
For amps....I wouldn't say the QSC GX would be a first choice. QSC's recent products have been a mixes bag in my opinion and this is...mixed.
However, YMMV.

There are better amps in the price range....metaverse what is available at hand?
Are you looking to expand?
What kind of power do you have...(32A, 16A, etc)?

For midtops to go above these, I'd go for Rog's X15s or a simple pair of passive 15+comps.

Quote:
Originally posted by electroaudio


No, you need a crossover to only send bass to the bassspeakers and mid-hi to the tops.

However, i would advice to stay away from behringer on such an important function as the crossover and get a DBX 223 , RANE AC22 or some other similar and more reliable crossovers instead.
The ultracurcve could still be used as system eq since it then would be possible to bypass it when it breaks.
You also have other all-in-one alternatives like DBX PX which can do both eq , crossover and a lot of other useful stuff.
http://www.dbxpro.com/DriveRackPX/PX.php
PX is the PA for powered speakers
Same thing really

People seem to have a predisposition against Berry gear, but there are one or two gems in the pile of turd.

But the Berry UltraDrive/Curve series is a budget workhorse, which if you take care of, will not die unless you do something really stupid.

Don't forget that these are not just 'crossovers' we are talking about, they are LMS units, with inbuilt parametric, compressor, limiter, delay, etc functions.

With an AC22 you would have to have your rack filled with yet more processing to make up for functionality.

The optimum setup for this situation in my humble opinion would be a ultradrive and a simple 2x31 band graphic EQ. You don't need an ultracurve, and there are plenty good ones from used equipment sellers. You don't need to get a DN360 by any means, but you can pick up some deals. I choose to have an external graphic because they are easy to change, take the strain off the Berry, and are quite cheap.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2008, 11:03 PM   #37
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Massachusetts
I couldn't find any dealers around this part of the pond that carry the PD or the v18 , and i'm guessing between shipping and conversions i'd probably be spending too much AND considering the X1 was designed for the SD-18 , I should probably just go with that

:::::

Concerning The mids/tops - I'm going to go with a set of x15's [ http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=x15 ] ...

although i'm not sure what drivers I should go with ??

The suggested drivers in the plans almost seem like they might be overkill for my needs - but again , you guys are the guys with the experience so i'll take your word for it AND I can always turn the gain down

what do you folks feel would be the proper complimentary drivers in the X15 cabs to the X1 box ??

Also upon checking http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/paudiopht.html - they dont have the horns suggested in the first set of [cheaper/smaller] X15 plans ... I'm feeling like maybe the SN-15MB , isn't quite needed ... especially at 175 dollars a piece. Maybe 12's instead? However , I can always turn down the gain ...

again i'm looking for a good complementary fit of mids and highs to go with the SD-18 in the X1.

:::::

PX for powered speakers LOL - I guess I should've checked it out a bit more as these cabinets will obviously be using external amps.

I'm going to use the Behringer - I'll just make sure to baby it.

As far as those EQ's go , I do like these ease of adjustment. Just grab a slider and adjust however do you feel it will make much of a difference on the Work Load of the berry ?? I mean if I can grab a good working one for 100 bucks or so i'll jump in if its easier to use AND extends the life of the DCX ...



:::::

I was showing some of these plans to a friend who does custom carpentry and furniture building (he's done a speaker box or two in his day but nothing like this) and he had mentioned some difficulty while reading the plans provided here on the site. He mentioned that he wasn't too sure where to start ...

He also mentioned what kind of wood - Jbell suggested the auroco ... Any other votes for this one ??

Obviously I dont want ANY mishaps after investing so much time and effort ...

I also had mentioned that I saw an X1 build where someone used dowels? His response was "Wow , thats good craft - but too much of a pain in the *** for me , could I just use nails?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2008, 11:36 PM   #38
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: stockholm
Quote:
Originally posted by aubergine
Ian, they're next door neighbours for a good reason as you know...

electroaudio
For amps....I wouldn't say the QSC GX would be a first choice. QSC's recent products have been a mixes bag in my opinion and this is...mixed.
However, YMMV.

There are better amps in the price range....metaverse what is available at hand?


Wouldnt that be very expensive to QSC since they have a rather good guarantee?
My own experience is only with older QSCs like EX, MX, MXa , PL and so forth. My own QSC amps are MXa and EX and they are very reliable workhorses.
Very much in the same league as my normal LAB Gruppen and D12 amps.
-I do however have a couple of IT4000s that NOT is reliable at all.
And a couple of digams that fails one by one so there are only three left by now... YIKES

Quote:
Are you looking to expand?
What kind of power do you have...(32A, 16A, etc)?
He is in usa so most likely 20A at 110V.

Quote:
PX is the PA for powered speakers
Same thing really
Except it is a small sibling to the recent 4800
But i think the complaints against PA is a bit moot too, have you heard a djmixer? DJM800 for instance. Or seen how they are used? Always in the red...

Quote:
People seem to have a predisposition against Berry gear, but there are one or two gems in the pile of turd.

But the Berry UltraDrive/Curve series is a budget workhorse, which if you take care of, will not die unless you do something really stupid.

Don't forget that these are not just 'crossovers' we are talking about, they are LMS units, with inbuilt parametric, compressor, limiter, delay, etc functions.

With an AC22 you would have to have your rack filled with yet more processing to make up for functionality.

The optimum setup for this situation in my humble opinion would be a ultradrive and a simple 2x31 band graphic EQ. You don't need an ultracurve, and there are plenty good ones from used equipment sellers. You don't need to get a DN360 by any means, but you can pick up some deals. I choose to have an external graphic because they are easy to change, take the strain off the Berry, and are quite cheap.
The expected lifespan of a behringer usually is 1-1.5 years at best.
But he shouldnt need all the functions in the behringer, so why should he risk the reliability on a component that if it breaks will ruin the night.
An AC22 with an optional KT DN360 would be sufficient if the system is a good one built properly.
And wouldnt it be odd to use a behringer and an 360? One good and very expensive part and an another whose function is very important but where reliability is questionable?

A traditional barrentalsystem from me would consist of two EAW850SB, two custombuilt JBL 2x15"+2" one rack with a rane mojo crossover and one LAB1600 and one LAB1300. soundwise it would be better than many other competitors that has processors and still impossible to burn down.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2008, 11:38 PM   #39
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: stockholm
Quote:
Originally posted by metaverse

PX for powered speakers LOL - I guess I should've checked it out a bit more as these cabinets will obviously be using external amps.
It has a lot of predefined programs for powered speakes builtin from the factory, but that doesnt matter...
Just make your own settings for your own system. just as you would with any other processor.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2008, 11:49 PM   #40
imix500 is offline imix500  United States
diyAudio Member
 
imix500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
In addition to what has already been said, take a look at Xilica for speaker management. Not real well known in the states yet, but some very attractive offerings nonetheless. For amps I'd stay away from the EP* at least for sub duty. You said you want a new amp, but a good used Macro Tech 2400 or Crest 7001 or 8001 would be a solid choice. The newer QSC RMX amps seem to be very good for the money. (IIRC they are what Behr* copied and stripped down) And I know a place where you can get a used XTA DP200 for a song
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Laptop sound system? zebra100 Chip Amps 4 31st July 2008 03:04 PM
New sound system djfatben Multi-Way 16 17th December 2004 07:41 PM
My sound system! VEC7OR Multi-Way 6 6th September 2003 11:28 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:14 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2