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Old 5th September 2008, 03:42 PM   #11
wg_ski is offline wg_ski  United States
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Originally posted by metaverse
In another thread someone suggested the T36 horn saying:
"Its a single 15" horn that takes about 300 watts to be almost as loud as a JBL dual 18". big cabinets though, but WELL worth the money, high dollar to db ratio here."

Any Thoughts?

Those types of horns need to be used in multiples to get full bass extension and power handling. If you're not opposed to lugging several of them around, they're impossible to beat for the money.
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Old 5th September 2008, 05:27 PM   #12
electroaudio is offline electroaudio  Sweden
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Originally posted by wg_ski
The DCX2496 is one of Behringer's better pieces. Being all digital, there are no cheap analog pots or switches to tear up (the usual failure mode). The DRPA is not as good, so if the DR 260 is too rich for your blood the 2496 is the way to go.
Also crackerd solderjoints and blown psus...
PS, PA and PX isnt the same box. But there is also other alternatives like LEM DX24.
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Old 5th September 2008, 05:28 PM   #13
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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I had a bad experience with T36. There was some fairly tale spl charts for them. Bill F. has updated them, however they still are ??? One chart has Two T36 making 95db@40hz, another has one T36 making 95db@40hz, and yet another makes 90db@40hz.. So I still don't trust the spl charts I see -- they don't add up.

On the ultradrive. Yes, that's what you need -- DCX2496. It's your eq, your crossover, your delay processor, your brick wall limiter, your dynamic eq. It's everything you need to set up your system. For the price, nothing touches it. Just make sure it's road worthy. Some have taken to intentionally dropping (about 4-5 inches) a dcx2496 3 or 4 times on a table with a towel under it to prevent scratches, to find out if it has any loose connections before putting it in their system. Any with loose connections will be found that way, and you can return under warranty easy enough. (better to find out that way... than at a gig...)

On sub's & tops, I have personal opinions, but they are just that.. opinions. I'm currently designing a personal pa system, that sounds about like what you are looking for, based on the MCM 55-1740 driver. 4 tops, and 4 subs. both are 100db-plus 1Watt efficient and will make alot of noise from a single amp.

Just be careful on what you look at, and make sure the math all adds up... After all, it's all math.
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Old 5th September 2008, 05:37 PM   #14
iand is offline iand  United Kingdom
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Originally posted by FlipC
Well you left out some things we need to know.
Do you already own wood working tools?
If the answer to the question is NO then I would suggest purchasing a TH Mini sub from Danley Sound Labs, 2/4 Peavey SP10's or 12's. Behringer DCX2496 Ultradrive. 2 used Crown XLS 602 amplifiers. (1@600w stereo @4 ohms for mid/highs other bridge for 1200w mono for sub) A gator amp rack and a Furman power conditioner. That should be right around 2.2 K
A PA that puts out over 130 DB from 50Hz-21KHz.
-10DB at 41 Hz. In a size that can fit into a hatch back!

If you do and want to build your own then how will you transport said system?
All fine except it doesn't get down into the sub-40Hz region which was one of the OP's main requirements -- and neither do the majority of PA subs.

For that type of music and simple self-building this is probably the best bet:


(but loaded with a better driver than the P-audio SD18, probably the Void V18-1000 is the best bet and actually a bit cheaper)

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Old 5th September 2008, 08:30 PM   #15
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Provided that you know how to use it, the DCX2496 can do more useful signal processing than any analog crossover, even more than many digital crossovers from reputable brands costing up to 10 times more.

If you are concerned about the reliability, you can get a spare unit, or two, and still save money...
I use to feel like the small child in The Emperor's New Clothes tale
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Old 6th September 2008, 12:03 AM   #16
FlipC is offline FlipC  United States
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I was going to suggest a bandpass like the X1
Why I asked how he would be transporting the PA.

I don't think allot of people look at budgets.
He wants to spend 2 K on the entire rig. Wants sub bass. And it is only for 60-80 people.

DBX products are out due to cost.
Also I did not mean to put down the DCX2496 but rather the
Behringer FBQ6200. Sorry about that. A big difference there. The FBQ will handle all your needs in 1 unit. From being a "crossover" source for your subs. To limiting ( a big plus for your needs) and an EQ to sort the room.

I wouldn't build the T36 for your needs.
I own 2 of the very first from Cerwin Vega. So old that the 18" drivers are 4 ohms. Cerwin freaked out when I sent one of the drivers in to have it fixed. The throw is to long for such a small venue. The X1 would be a much better build.

Also to note.
The physical size of the driver (10/12/15/18) doesn't mean it will produce more bass. The cabinet and the driver must work together.
So when looking at plans dont think you have to build an 18" version. You could always build an X1 for a driver like the
Lab 12
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Old 6th September 2008, 03:16 PM   #17
shawn1972 is offline shawn1972  Canada
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Now I'm not the most technical guy but he wants indoor PA not HT.Why is there so much stress on 20hz.I use T36's in different ways and have had excellent success.Unless horn is the size of a tank it is all about loading.Corner load 4-T36's and you'll be deaf.Now I am a bass freak and have 1-36x36x36" on huge tugboat for parties.It IS corner loaded dual 15's and I played with high pass filter and liked it best at 35hz-12db slope.I play heavy bass tracks and it shakes the windows.JBELL for my T36's in my house.They are corner loaded on top of each other for HT.Each has Shiva-x,put 1 watt to each and got 96.8db.Is that about what u got?BUT i also got 103.3 at 40 and 106.7 at 50.That's where I find the "music bass" to be more pronounced.I maxed at 124.6 at 20hz in about 25'x25' room as they are bolted into wall,and 133.9 at 80hz,Thanks and good luck with decision.Metaverse I still say 4-T36's will be bass heavy there.
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Old 6th September 2008, 06:43 PM   #18
RobWells is offline RobWells  United Kingdom
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Originally posted by shawn1972
Why is there so much stress on 20hz.

Who's mentioned 20Hz ?

FWIW I'd second the recomendation for the X1 from speakerplans. It's an easy build and has a hefty output for its size. I'd like to build a pair of them myself for using in the garden for parties. Just need some spare cash for the drivers.

There's no denying 4 x T36 would be very impressive, but a lot more work.

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Old 6th September 2008, 08:03 PM   #19
aubergine is offline aubergine  Malaysia
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djk, can you link you discussions? I'm interested...

I would also recommend the X1. Run 30-80/90hz with the right woofers (since you're in the US, a SD18 from loudspeakersplus is the one to use) it makes vision blur. It is the thing to use for the music you are playing.

And the Ultradrive is a staple for many PA rigs out there (budget of course, but can be found lurking in monitoring racks in some 'high class' areas that would otherwise use XTA/Dolby Lake. The main separator between it and the top class ones is reliability, then features.

DRPA has a reputation for eating drivers like maple syrup and pancakes.
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Old 6th September 2008, 08:50 PM   #20
electroaudio is offline electroaudio  Sweden
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Originally posted by aubergine
DRPA has a reputation for eating drivers like maple syrup and pancakes.
People seem to have a hard time to read here...
PA and PX are not the same.

However, with small amps and big efficient speakers then something in the line of RANE AC22 would do just fine...
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